Williams Favorite - Stewart Hybrid

[redietz]

Reading back over my last post, it seems a bit more pedantic than I intended. It really goes more to the "Quintessential North Country Spiders" thread than to this one. I keep running across WIlliam's Favorite being described as a NCS (not necessarily on this forum), and it doesn't really belong to that group. I apologize if it seemed like I was criticizing William in any way.

[William Anderson]

... the North Country Spider called Williams Favorite...

Not to put too fine a point on it, but Williams' Favorite is a Welsh fly, not from the North Country. And as William fils pictured in his book, it's far too heavily hackled to be considered a spider.

Anyway, you beat me to this. I've been thinking about doing the same thing for a while now and haven't gotten around to it. Nice job.

Thank you, Bob, of course you're correct, and I took absolutely no offense in any way. I should have been more careful with my terms. I wasn't the least bit put off by your correction, my ego isn't so delicate.

At one time I probably recognized that Alfred Williams was not an immediate part of the North Country scene. He actually never named his fly Williams Favorite (or Favourite), but his son A. Courtney Williams, who put together an amazing collection: A Dictionary of Trout Flies and of Flies for Sea-Trout and Grayling (1949) coined the name. The book was dedicated to his father Alfred Williams (1848-1925), who probably never even heard his fly called by its popular moniker. The fly however is simply derivative, as I believe are all the other North Country Spiders, Welsh Spiders and Spiders in general, of earlier flies. A black fly with a black hackle....lacks in creativity, but makes up for it in its effectiveness. With a bit of red as a tag it's a Reid's Assassin, as Carl pointed out, and there are several earlier flies listed under different names, usually called Black Flies, one with an orange tail that predates the Assassin. The younger Williams takes some pride in his father's fly mentioning it throughout the book comparing it to other flies and noting it's versatility when tied in different sizes and with more or less hackle. I believe from the descriptions his father used it as often for sea trout.

Honestly, Bob, I hadn't made the distinction. The WF for me is an identical construction as many of the other spiders tied with a silk body, a sparse collared soft hackle, with or without a rib. So when I loosely use the term North Country Spider, I have at times been referring to this construction type, rather than a particular fly, from a particular region and named at a particluar time. I'm not exactly reverant when it comes to tradition, but some are, and I should be more careful with historic terms. Some current books discussing the North Country Spiders do include the fly as a standard, and in most conversations, I don't think one would flinch if you (or most likely I) mistakenly referred to the WF as a NCS. You, my friend, have always impressed me very much, and I try to learn as much as I can from members like yourself. Nice catch.

w

[DUBBN]

Well while we are at it, please split some hairs for me. If silk is not used does this exclude it from being a North Country Spider? To be a North Country Spider does it already have to be an existing pattern? Kind of like a Catskill style? Or, if I travel to the North country and tie a pattern, do I get to label it a North Country? Being my middle name is William, I may name my pattern W.Williams Favorite.

Nothing serious, but maybe there is some criteria for being called a North Country?

[redietz]

William -

If you have the Dictionary of ... at hand, take a look at the photo of WF. It's got about half a chicken's worth of hackle. That may be a slight bit of hyperbole, but I think he used more than one feather to get the hackle that dense. I'm sure the fly was intended for across and down fishing, which to me puts it in a different category.

Of course, it's really just a Black Pennell that's lost it's tail.

You version, OTOH, fits the "spider" category nicely.

[William Anderson]

Wayne, I think you nailed the absurdity of these types of conversations. Those flies were designed and presented specifically to match local insects in areas that I don't often visit. So any spider I tie, resembling what is commonly known as a NCS, will likely be presented to trout with no hint of the Queen's lilt. Size and coloration often coincide with our own insects, but that's where it ends for me.

BTW, I use black unithread 8/0 for my WF. Black silk really offers no advantage, imho.

w

[William Anderson]

William -

If you have the Dictionary of ... at hand, take a look at the photo of WF. It's got about half a chicken's worth of hackle. That may be a slight bit of hyperbole, but I think he used more than one feather to get the hackle that dense. I'm sure the fly was intended for across and down fishing, which to me puts it in a different category.

I find it rare to see plates of flies in the older texts that I can immediately relate to. The delicate and sparse spiders I typically use are half to a quarter of the hackle I see on these plates. Williams description for the WF is tied on a #12-#16, with #14 being most useful for him. From the image, it's a hell of a lot of material to strap to a #14 hook, but many of the dressings were more robust. He seems to imply too that he prefers to fish the WF dry, but not offering an alternate dressing for the dry version. On any account the fly shown seems overdressed for my use in the Eastern US.

You say you catergorize the historic wet flies separately as being intended to fish upstream or downstream? I know some flies are tied with stiffer hackles for "rough" water, and the softer hackles intended for softer sections, but I have not noticed a reference to a fly being dressed as a downstream spider. I noted in the quintessential thread that there were (and likely still are) issues between those in the Southern regions fishing upstream and those in the upper regions preferring a downstream presentation, and each thinking the other as sacriledge. I have assumed they were fishing the same groups of flies, but using a different presentation, not that you could spot a typically Welsh fly by its more robust construction. It all seems very remote from where I sit, so I probably miss quite a lot. It never seemed as simple as..."the Scots fish palmers and the English fish spiders" or "Scottish water is rough and English water is placid". Although those descriptions are given often. I guess I'd have to see it for myself. I just can't imagine it being as easily defined as that. And then it gets overly complicated with wings....and lake patterns. I have to keep it simple for my own sake.

w

[redietz]

I'm not particularly well-read on the subject of West Country/Welsh flies, but many of the examples that I've seen appear to be much more heavily hackled than anything you'd describe as being "North Country". Pure speculation on my part, but I believe that many of the Welsh flies are intended to do double duty as sewin (sea-trout) flies. Since most of the fishing for those is done at night, I would think (again pure speculation) you would want flies that 1) are intended to be fished downstream (hard to detect a take upstream in the dark) and 2) push a lot of water (to attract the sea trout). For example, in the my copy of the book Flies of Wales by Moc Morgan, the photo of the Black Pennell is every bit as heavily hackled as the WF in the Dictionary. The text identifies it as a wet fly, and speaks of its former glory as a sewin fly. (As noted above, the BP is the same fly as WF, except that it has a tail.)

OTOH, Stewart, Pritt and Edmonds&Lee were pretty insistent about fishing upstream, which to me explains the sparser hackle.

A total aside, but Pennell and Stewart exchanged a number of acrimonious letters in the British sporting press in the 19th century about the virtues of upstream (Stewart) and downstream (Pennell) presentation.

I hope that somebody who actually knows something about Welsh flies chimes in.

[letumgo]

Handsome flies William and Wayne, and interesting discussion/history by all.

[Kelly L.]

William thank you so much for the beautiful fly here. I also liked that hook very much. You and Dubbn have me thinking about digging through my hooks...lol.