Rio "Slinky Indicator"

[hankaye]

Bazzer69, Howdy;

Dynamite also catches lots of fish as well as m-80’s, would you call that fishing if you attached a fly to every stick?

Tried that, but those little suckers wiggle, scream, and protest so much
it scares all the fish away before you can light the fuse and chunk it inna water.
, ,

hank

[Bazzer69]

With 20ft leaders and no fly line out the rod tip how can this be called fly fishing? Ted Fay and his Bomber Fly’s of the seventies used this method and back then it was called “high sticking “. A lot of fly fishermen back then also dismissed it as “not fly fishing”. Dynamite also catches lots of fish as well as m-80’s, would you call that fishing if you attached a fly to every stick?

If you insist on casting (in the modern sense of the word) as being part of fly fishing, then you've excluded about 90% of the rich history of the sport. What Claudius Aelianus described seeing in Macedonia c 150 AD couldn't be called fly fishing. Dame Juliana (or at least the author of The Treatyse), Charles Cotton, Robert Venables, James Chetham and Richard Bowlker, couldn't be called fly fishers. It's the terminal tackle that should define fly fishing, not the method of placing it in the water.

BTW, as a kid I did occasionally "fish" with M-80's. I found flies to be more effective and less likely to attract the attention of the warden.

Actually m-80’s make little noise when detonated under water. I’ve used hand grenades whilst in the military on a famed trout stream which flows across military training ground in the UK
I’ve seen YouTube videos which describe Euro style nymphing as “lob” casting. I thought this forum was about traditional style flymph fly fishing. Sure, it’s ok in my book to digress into all soft hackles or even a beaded nymph or two, but defiantly not “lob” casting which require a two weight rod to just “lob” out a leader. But maybe that’s just me.

[redietz]

I’ve seen YouTube videos which describe Euro style nymphing as “lob” casting. I thought this forum was about traditional style flymph fly fishing. Sure, it’s ok in my book to digress into all soft hackles or even a beaded nymph or two, but defiantly not “lob” casting which require a two weight rod to just “lob” out a leader.

This forum is about wingless wets, and I'm not sure that coiled leaders really have anything to do with that subject, but that's a long way from saying that Euro-nymphing isn't fly fishing (even if it's not my cuppa.)

[hankaye]

Howdy All;

I was trying to inject some levity earlier. Reckon it didn't take.
So, I'll try this, Bazzer69, you come across as frustrated that Nymphs are being discussed
and tolerated as well as ways to fish them. But really, ... isn't a nymph only a younger Mayfly?
Bazzerhttps://www.britannica.com/animal/mayfly
Should we just limit ourselves to only the subimago, imago and adult which breeds then dies.
The majority of the critters life is generally as a nymph. Basically, you want to hunt and fish
the 2 to 3 weeks when the critter is NOT a nymph instead of the up to 2 years it exists as a
nymph ... they are wingless and very, very wet.

hank

[Bazzer69]

Howdy All;

I was trying to inject some levity earlier. Reckon it didn't take.
So, I'll try this, Bazzer69, you come across as frustrated that Nymphs are being discussed
and tolerated as well as ways to fish them. But really, ... isn't a nymph only a younger Mayfly?
Bazzerhttps://www.britannica.com/animal/mayfly
Should we just limit ourselves to only the subimago, imago and adult which breeds then dies.
The majority of the critters life is generally as a nymph. Basically, you want to hunt and fish
the 2 to 3 weeks when the critter is NOT a nymph instead of the up to 2 years it exists as a
nymph ... they are wingless and very, very wet.

hank

I thought I wrote than nymphs are ok beaded and or synthetic. I use them all the time when fishing clients it’s not the choice of fly that I am dissing but the method of fishing them casting, with a fly line out of the rod tip is fly fishing in my book, fishing with only the leader out of the rod tip is not fly fishing. Hank, please note that this is my opinion, feel free to disagree
B

[Mike62]

Here in Maine the definition of what constitutes 'fly fishing' requires that the fly line propel the fly forward. In waters within the jurisdiction of 'General rules' you could drift bead head nymphs under all the slinky's and 30' mono leaders all you want, it's legal. When it comes to FFO waters however, you would be committing a violation if you used the Euro setup. ...and they mean it, too.

I've tried the Euro setup. I even made a couple of those slinky things one winter out of pure cabin fever'd desperation. It's interesting but it isn't how I want to use a fly rod. The ghost of Halford lives, one mans ceiling is another mans floor, six of one or half a dozen of the other, tomato, to-mahto... I'm simple and easy to please: give me a traditional set up with wets and a few dries and I'm happier than the proverbial pig in a pile.

It seems to me that it's all part and parcel of our wonderful little diversion. Way back in the mists of time I used to get all hung up on people using 'bobbers'; I thought the 'Thingamabobber' was sent by the Anti-Christ to destroy our sport. I still won't use one, but I have been seen with a yarn indicator a time or two.

The arguments are enlightening, to me anyway. I'm not advocating a total laissez fair approach to the definition of what is or isn't 'fly fishing', but knowledge is good so gimme all ya' got and I'll try and do my best to pay tribute to our heritage and our future.

[hankaye]

Bazzer69, Howdy;

Howdy All;

I was trying to inject some levity earlier. Reckon it didn't take.
So, I'll try this, Bazzer69, you come across as frustrated that Nymphs are being discussed
and tolerated as well as ways to fish them. But really, ... isn't a nymph only a younger Mayfly?
Bazzerhttps://www.britannica.com/animal/mayfly
Should we just limit ourselves to only the subimago, imago and adult which breeds then dies.
The majority of the critters life is generally as a nymph. Basically, you want to hunt and fish
the 2 to 3 weeks when the critter is NOT a nymph instead of the up to 2 years it exists as a
nymph ... they are wingless and very, very wet.

hank

I thought I wrote than nymphs are ok beaded and or synthetic. I use them all the time when fishing clients it’s not the choice of fly that I am dissing but the method of fishing them casting, with a fly line out of the rod tip is fly fishing in my book, fishing with only the leader out of the rod tip is not fly fishing. Hank, please note that this is my opinion, feel free to disagree
B

Bazzer, I suppose you were intending to 'target' the casting aspect, it was this bit that
triggered my response " Sure, it’s ok in my book to digress into all soft
hackles or even a beaded nymph or two, " . So, if I misunderstood your intent
then sorry 'bout that. Would have been clearer and less misunderstanding without the
highlighted addition in your comments.

hank

[Trevis]

Missouri defines RoosterTails on spinning rigs as fly fishing on our "fly only" trout waters. Interestingly they do not allow foam bodies or rubber legs.
I've always defined fly fishing the way it was in the state I learned in; done "with a fly rod and a single action reel"- no mention of what kind or lure or bait and no real definition of what a "fly rod" is.
It gets to be not just a rabbit hole but a warren when we set out to narrowly define such a diversified activity with thousands of years of development.
I found out a few days ago, on this forum, that what I have called flymphs for four decades are not simply because I have never used Pearsall's silk.

Try 30d common nail @ 0.22" diameter x 4.5" long; or 40d common @ 0.24" x 5".
Our 60d has the same 0.24" diameter x 6" long- I'm not positive but believe NZ nails are smaller diameter, similar to our box nails.

[Bazzer69]

I found out a few days ago, on this forum, that what I have called flymphs for four decades are not simply because I have never used Pearsall's silk

I believe that a flymph is a style of dressing and doesn’t have to be any particular materials. Although I use silk for mine I don’t believe that it’s necessary and synthetic thread is fine. Some believe that the colors of silk are in some way special and catch more fish. I don’t subscribe to this view besides which the generally quoted Pearsall’s silks are no longer manufactured.
Barry

[Trevis]

Barry, I've always thought it more about the way the fly was fished than about the material, color or exact mode of dress. There is however a definition that is quoted on more than one thread here that specifies silk and that the silk show through and blend with the dubbing. I suppose this rigid definition separates Flymphs from other wingless wets, spiders, and soft hackle flies to give the word greater meaning. It's been over 40 years since I read Hidy's book and truth to tell I don't recall most of it. But having tied with nylon and viscose all those years, I won't probably lose any sleep over not having ever seen silk thread, or not having used it.
Just as I won't worry about whether using a bobber/dobber/sighter/indicator/whatis is or is not fly fishing.
Fly fishing is what ever the authority in a state or having control of a water says it is. In my current location Rooster Tails are flies and crappie jigs are flies if made with hair or feather, but foam bodied ants, hoppers, etc or anything using rubber/vinyl legs/antennae are not flies. Knowing that and that using spinning or casting gear is legally "fly fishing" doesn't cause me to change the way I fish at all. I certainly would not benefit from a "sighter", I know this because I have tried a couple different types of sighters and dobbers- resulting in miss after miss and lousy cast after lousy cast. The slinky style especially adds several inches of stretch to the leader that must be taken up before the hook can be set. But hey, if other folks want to handicap themselves, I have no problem with them.