Hooks used on Leisenring & Hidy Dressings

[joaniebo]

This old guy is confused, which happens quite more often as I've aged.

In many pics that I see of flies tied using the dressings shown in "The Art of Tying The Wet Fly & Fishing The Flymph", the hooks used / pictured are often up-eye hooks. Yet in looking at the pics in the book, the only fly picture with an up-eye hook is for the "Stone" dressing that calls for a size 10 or 12 long shank hook.

Was there a time when James Leisenring or Vern Hidy used down-eye hooks and then switched to up-eye hooks (or vice versa)? Any info / clarification would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Bob

[daringduffer]

Bob, Leisenring seemed to prefer down-eye hooks but Hidy, later in life, took a fancy to up-eye hooks, such as Mustad 94842, since he liked the swimming motion he could get from these hooks.

dd

[letumgo]

Bob,

In 1941 edition of Leisenring’s book, he wrote:

PAGE 11: "The Art of Tying the Wet Fly" by James Leisenring / Forth Printing / circa 1946
“A hook’s shape is largely a matter of opinion. Personally, I prefer a (model perfect) round bend secured for me by Messeena’s of London, England. These hooks leave nothing to be desired. These hooks may be seen in the photographs of my flies in the chapter on FLY PATTERNS AND DRESSINGS. My next choice, a hook which I used to get from Allcocks in a sprout style #1810 First Grade Hollow Point. I have not been able to get these lately but they are excellent hooks, far superior to Allcock’s #1810 Best Grade Hollow Point. Of course, there is sixty cents difference in the price per hundred, but I am not interested in cheapness - it is quality I am after and I will gladly pay for it.

All hooks for my own use are straight, without side bends or sneaking. If I want them to bend to the side I bend them to suite myself with a pair of jewelers’ pincers which I carry in my vest pocket. Also, I prefer my hooks to have turned down eyes.”

Although not explicitly listed in the text, I believe Leisenring’s favorite hook was the Allcock’s #2300, in sizes 12, 14 and 16teens. He liked hollow point hooks.

Leisenring advise Pete Hidy to buy 10,000 hooks, in each size (12/14/16). Thirty thousand hooks, total.

Leisenring recommended studying the hackle gauge on the back of the Noll’s catalogue to see the size of hooks he preferred. (Perhaps someone has a copy of an old Noll’s catalogue to share?)

All of the fly patterns, shown in Leisenring’s book, were tyed on turned down-eyed (TDE) hook, with the exception of the Stone fly. (I believe the stone fly was tyed on a No. 04991SF TUE tapered eye hook).

Lance Hidy posted photos of the original set of flies from Leisenring’s book here:

REFERENCE PHOTOS OF LEISENRING FLIES: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=6812

It is my understanding that Pete Hidy favored the turned-up eyed hook, and popularized TUE hooks around the same time he coined the phrase “flymph”.

[daringduffer]

Allcocks in a sprout style #1810 First Grade Hollow Point.

Dana and narcobob have 2000 of these in size 12, 14 and 16. Just ask.

dd

[Old Hat]

Dana and narcobob have 2000 of these in size 12, 14 and 16. Just ask.

dd

You're bad.

[daringduffer]

Dana and narcobob have 2000 of these in size 12, 14 and 16. Just ask.

dd

You're bad.

But in a good way!

dd

[Stendalen]

Dana and narcobob have 2000 of these in size 12, 14 and 16. Just ask.

dd

You're bad.

But in a good way!

dd

[daringduffer]

Seriously though, narcodana, do you have any of these hooks to show what they look like compared to a more common hook? Maybe a fly(mph) tied on one? I started to look for these about thirty years ago but never found any.

dd

(I found a copy of that 1941 wet fly book right before starting the search for the hook).

[Jim Slattery]

Leisenring preferred Messeena hooks.
Messeena hooks were bought by Venaird"s.
According to Davy Wotton The hooks were in the basement of Veniards for decades.
A flood came along and ruined them before I could salvage them from the basement.
Jim

[UC Steve]

Of course Leisenring preferred turned-eye hooks, remember, he, as most anglers in his time, fastened his fly to the tippet with a snell or turle knot, which requires a turned eye to work properly. Leisenring's hackling method allows for a tiny head with no effort, yet, we see he built a long, conical head which, I believe, was purposeful, to make room for the turle. A hook with a turned eye must be fastened with a snell or turle to hover & track properly. Tied directly to the eye, with anything other than a loop-knot, the turned eye will serve to lever the fly off balance, causing it to 'screw'. Modern tyers who tie directly to the eye would do a lot better to learn the turle knot, or tie with straight-eye hooks, as the Yorkshire purists prefer.