Frank Sawyer's Nymphs

[daringduffer]

dd,
.......
How red is red? Remember that our Britt friends call hackle "red" that we would call "brown." Of the many original Sawyer flies, and photos of the same, that I have seen over the years, I have never seen any that were dressed with wire that this Yank would call "red." Copper or even copper-brown perhaps, but not "red." This may all be a matter of cultural differences in describing a common color and nothing more. Like I've said before, I've tied PT's with several shades of copper wire and have not found one to be demonstrably better than another.

John,
In my post I referred to PhilA's photo and description of copper enamel.
If I had the ambition to be more precise, I could word it 'darker enamelled' and 'lighter/brighter enamelled' copper.
I don't know if the copper colour has anything to do with the reddish colour of the wet Killer Bugs that PhilA is showing. It just might be the reddish nylon in the 477 yarn that gives the end product its appearance. Have to admit that I haven't tied a KB without copper and then wetted it to compare.

When I was breeding Tanganyika cichlids and feeding them live creatures, movement was what they looked for. When all moving stuff was gone, they usually mopped up the rest. Colour didn't seem important to them.

dd

[ronr]

Phila...I've read all your research into locating a Chadwicks substitute...I'm fascinated by the killer bug and watched video of it being fished in England. From what I can tell, it is supposed to imitate a scud, or caddis larva. What's your opinion and is the Peruvian substitute easily obtainable. Here in Central Oregon there are a number of Alpaca raisers and some retail establishments that may sell their wool. I'm going to have to be on a hunt to find out. Is there any chance that you could afford another small sample of that wool so that I can look for similar colors.
I've tied a few of the killers using sparkle yarn... but they don't quite provide the same color change in the water...
thank you for sharing the fruits of your research... this forum is such a wealth of knowledge...

cheers...
ronr

[PhilA]

Phila...I've read all your research into locating a Chadwicks substitute...I'm fascinated by the killer bug and watched video of it being fished in England. From what I can tell, it is supposed to imitate a scud, or caddis larva. What's your opinion and is the Peruvian substitute easily obtainable. Here in Central Oregon there are a number of Alpaca raisers and some retail establishments that may sell their wool. I'm going to have to be on a hunt to find out. Is there any chance that you could afford another small sample of that wool so that I can look for similar colors.
I've tied a few of the killers using sparkle yarn... but they don't quite provide the same color change in the water...
thank you for sharing the fruits of your research... this forum is such a wealth of knowledge...

cheers...
ronr

Ron,
Thanks for the kind words. I'll gladly send both yarn and wire, as I have lots of both. Sadly, the substitute yarn (Berroco "Ultra Alpaca Fine", color #1214, "Steel Cut Oats") is no longer made. You might get lucky and find a skein in a yarn shop, but it's certainly no longer plentiful. Upon learning that, I bought several skeins. That's many lifetimes worth! Perhaps you could send me your mailing address via a forum message here.

Sawyer described the Killer Bug in the first edition of Nymphs and the Trout as an imitation of freshwater shrimp (scuds). He later came to appreciate that it also imitates other aquatic invertebrates, as it was effective in rivers and lakes that have very few scuds. This was described in the second edition, where he suggested trout take it for an aquatic beetle or ascending caddis pupa.

My own opinion (and this is not unique to me) is that Killer Bugs are also excellent imitations of crane fly larvae, photos of which can be found at https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=cr ... ORM=HDRSC2.

Both scuds and craneflies are abundant in my home waters, which are entirely limestone spring creeks. I find that KBs are especially effective in the early season (March-April), when hatches are sparse and intermittent. During that period, I often fish a KB in tandem with a small soft-hackled pheasant tail, and the two flies yield about equal results. After the water warms and hatches become more intense (~late April), a KB seems less effective. The two flies are no longer equal, and I switch the KB for something more imitative like a caddis pupae or soft-hackled sow bug.

Cheers,
Phil

[Greenwell]

Well, this is a thread that has spun off into several tangents! Just a couple comments:

As to hooks, I am sorry that the style that Frank Sawyer used was never mentioned in any of his writing. A number of years ago I briefly corresponded with Nick Sawyer, Frank's son. One of the questions I had for him was what hook the Sawyers prefered. He said that they used a number of different hooks over the years but he didn't have the styles. I had the feeling that he may have been a bit evasive. The original PT's in my collection look to be on a Mustad hook called the Mustad Kendall 9143. I ordered several hundred from the UK and they are pretty close but seem to be shorter in the shank the the original PT hooks. I stumbled across a light wire version of the same 9143 hooks a few years later that's a bit longer but it's finer wire than I like personally. I've used the TMC 3769 for over 30 years, which I'm sure everyone is bored to tears with me repeating that ad infinitum, and I am totally satisfied with it.

I've tried many different colors of dyed PT for the flies but always come back to the natural. I won't say that different colors aren't effective, I just can't prove them to be any better. I do like a black dyed PT for tiny early stonefly nymphs but those are about the only dyed PT's I ever use. Just my opinion based on personal experience and nothing more.

[Bazzer69]

John, thanks for your insight. The hooks that I have seen in photos of genuine Frank S PT’s look fairly long in the shank and certainly have huge barbs compared to modern day hooks. Does the colour or the fly make much difference? In my experience as a long in the tooth guide there are days when it doesn’t seem to matter on the choice of fly or colour, but on other days if you haven’t got the right fly in the right size and colour your going home skunked. What’s vitally important with nymphing is presenting the fly at the right depth and speed to the fish. But not to take the thread off on a tangent it’s really nice to see some original PT’s as tied by mrs Sawyer.
Barry

[Greenwell]

John, thanks for your insight. The hooks that I have seen in photos of genuine Frank S PT’s look fairly long in the shank and certainly have huge barbs compared to modern day hooks. Does the colour or the fly make much difference? In my experience as a long in the tooth guide there are days when it doesn’t seem to matter on the choice of fly or colour, but on other days if you haven’t got the right fly in the right size and colour your going home skunked. What’s vitally important with nymphing is presenting the fly at the right depth and speed to the fish. But not to take the thread off on a tangent it’s really nice to see some original PT’s as tied by mrs Sawyer.
Barry

Barry,

Small barbs are a relatively recent innovation in hook making, and most older hooks have a fairly large barb. There was a reason for this and it had to do with the manufacturing process: the barb was used as a "catch" when the hook wire was bent around the hook forming mandrel. This was true of both hand made and early machine made hooks. Darrel Martin shows this process in his book: The Fly-Fisher's Craft. Not too long ago, barbless hooks cost more than the same model of barbed hook as the barbless hooks were more complicated to make.

The issue of color in flies can be debated endlessly. We like having just the right color materials for many of our fly patterns and go to great lengths to get them, which is a big part of the fun of fly tying. When it comes to actual fishing, my opinion is that color doesn't matter as much as many would like to believe, especially in dry flies. The "wrong" color fly fished correctly is many times more effective than the "right" color fly fished poorly. And I'll think I'll leave it at that!

[Old Hat]

I fish PT nymphs in just 3 colors. Natural, Black, and dyed antique yellow which is a muted yellow where there is still plenty of the brown of the feather. These are the 3 that I have found a need for at times. I have tried red with success but not sure it departs from the effectiveness of natural.

[PhilA]

Has anyone concluded that a dyed color of pheasant tail feathers works *better* than the natural color? I suspect many dyed colors work as well, but not necessarily better. As we all know, day-to-day or even hour-to-hour fishing results are variable, and establishing whether one color is better than another is difficult to do with confidence. Fishing a tandem pair of PTs that differ only by color might reveal a preference, but, in the words of Datus Proper, "We seldom try to prove selectivity. Catching trout is too much fun."

[daringduffer]

I saw a photo of yet another pheasant tail nymph in a magazine today. The difference from an ordinary was more of a tail and then a bunch of cdc bursting out from the split thorax cover. It was probably intended to be fished in the film. I caught just a glimpse of it.

dd

[Bazzer69]

I saw a photo of yet another pheasant tail nymph in a magazine today. The difference from an ordinary was more of a tail and then a bunch of cdc bursting out from the split thorax cover. It was probably intended to be fished in the film. I caught just a glimpse of it.

dd

Of course there are many variations on FSPT and I’m sure all of them work, but in my experience the original dressing works the best with a little variation occasionally on the size and colour
B