Hook for the Red Hackle?

[Mataura mayfly]

At a glance, Bill's link looks to be "proper" bronze Peacock herl.
By that, I mean genetic mutation herl, not dyed or sun bleached green herl (that I have seen trying to be sold/passed off as bronze herl before!)
The bronze Peacock is a genetic mutation of the green Peafowl, so will possibly always show a little green, depending on the genetic mutation strength.
I have had some fairly favourable comments on the stuff I have sent around the World...... but then I usually sent it to nice well mannered folk!
One can never really judge a colour until one holds it in their own hand.

[wsbailey]

Bronze peacock herl has probably always been difficult to source. In addition to Leisenring, other tyers such as Skues and Ogden recommended dyeing peacock herl with magenta dye to get the bronze effect. I have yet to try this but I plan to when the weather warms up a bit.

Bill

[Mataura mayfly]

Bill, in my opinion (and it is not a terribly valued one!) the dyed version seems to loose some of its appeal.
It does not seem as iridescent as standard Peacock herl, which may indeed be one of the "X" factor qualities that makes herl such a popular fly tying material from the days before synthetics.

[wsbailey]

Jeff, dyeing never improves on nature. It merely provides what nature doesn't or at least not in abundance.

Bill

[drlogik]

Bill,

Jeff, dyeing never improves on nature. It merely provides what nature doesn't or at least not in abundance.

I'd go one step further. Dying provides a color that we humans see as a red or green or brown, etc. The trout may perceive that dyed material in a totally different color than the natural. That is why I don't generally use dyed materials.

Here's an experiment that I did a long time ago after reading a good bit of material on the subject. Get three different pure light sources (i.e. a single light source in say a windowless closet): incandescent, fluorescent and UV.

Get two samples of the same material, one natural color the other dyed. In my case I used natural wood duck flank feathers and dyed Mallard flank feathers. My samples to my visual eye were pretty darn close under incandescent light. Once I looked at them in florescent and UV light they looked totally different. Under the UV light the dyed material actually fluoresced/glowed! I then took them out and looked at them under natural sun light. They did not look to be the same color.

Considering all of this, I still say presentation trumps color matching but that's just me. In any case, I still favor natural colors rather than dyed.

Grant

[Mataura mayfly]

Grant, you might be on to something....... but then again it may depend more on the base material being dyed as to how more/less effective it is as a tying material.
I mean you do not see a heck of a lot of natural silk, or natural Seal called for in many fly dressings for instance.
I have no doubt your observations are true, many a fly tying material is coloured and designed to catch the tier before the fish, but something that "pops" in UV light is often thought to be desirable in a fly dressing.

[drlogik]

Mataura,

There's also no denying that dyed materials, like seal etc, catch tons of fish...and have for decades. Interesting stuff for sure.

Same subject different topic...

Many years ago I worked at a dye/finish textile plant. We made plush material for car seats and nylon/Lycra swimwear material. It is amazing how different dyed products can vary. We had to match our product to color master samples and had to come within very close tolerances. One other simple experiment one can do is compare garments that are black. Get five different "black" garments and fold them and squeeze them side by side so you can see a fold of each one. Look at them under the three light sources.

Crazy huh? Black is not black is not black! My guess is one will look "bluer" or "redder" or "yellower" than another. It's highly unlikely that any two will be the same black color.

I think trout can discern colors in a similar fashion; not by our visual standard but through a different UV spectrum. What if they see a dyed material and it fluoresced to them? What if another of the same fly was tied with a different brand of material (in the same color) or utilized a natural color instead of dyed were passed by the same fish? Would the fish like it better? Darn if I know. I've never been able to fully figure trout out.

Food for thought....

Grant

[wsbailey]

Lots of hooks!

http://flyhooks.org/

[daringduffer]

Lots of hooks!

http://flyhooks.org/

Indeed!

Here is a cross reference source I had not seen before: http://www.buckeyeflyfishers.com/articl ... okmust.htm By clicking 'previous', you can choose any of the vendors to be in the first column.

And here is another resource with a very different approach: http://www.flyonahook.me.uk/hooks.html.

Just tied a Red Hackle with size 14 Uni tinsel. The herl was too compressed for my likeing. The fly became anorectic. Will have to source size 16. Or maybe change technique. Am waiting for very southern summery herl. Won't use it until I can get the result I want.

dd