Topic: Hook Finish

[Old Hat]

I am curious if anyone takes into consideration hook finish when tying or selecting a fly for fishing? I have been doing a little reading, not a lot out there but I have found some, on hook finish and if it makes any difference to the trout. I have never really put much weight into the finish of the hook (silver, black, nickel, gold, bronze, blue etc). Mostly I just tie a pattern on the hook form I prefer or every once and a while select a hook for its finish only to complement the pattern to my eyes. Sometimes I'll try to lessen the prominence of the hook but incorporating it, by color and form, into the fly design. I may at times select a bright silver hook on a sunny day, like the Sylvester Nemes Crystal Soft Hackle and North Country hooks, just because I read somewhere way back when that the bright sun reflecting off the hook creates a halo effect on the crystal hook and diminishes the hook outline. I don't know if there really is anything substantial to that. My personal feelings at this point is that the fish aren't keying in on the hook but the triggers in the fly. If they did we might not catch any fish at all.

Anyway, any thoughts out there?

[Johnno]

Never really give the hook colour a thought. As you say, the fish are keying in on something else so in my mind likely largely irrelevant

[lykos33]

Ahhhh, but what if they are "keying " in on say a red hook? I know we used red hooks in salt water fishing a lot to imitate blood or and injury to the bait..other than the hook thru the back or lips...

[Soft-hackle]

Hi Carl,
I have not thought about this much. It's pretty much because I am of the belief that the hook drops away or is ignored. It's funny because my son and I were discussing this over the last weekend. Trout MUST see the hook, and for the most part, must decide to ignore it.

In the case of brightly colored hooks as lykos mentioned, they probably find them harder to ignore. Do brightly colored hooks increase hook up, or discourage them, or don't they make a difference. I have a funny suspicion it depends on the pattern.

I'm sure one can catch fish on a bare gold or red hook as I've seen it happen. I imagine adding a partridge hackle to a bare gold or red or black hook would make a very simple, yet enticing offering. It might be worth a try.

Mark

[flyfishwithme]

Mark, the last comment of yours is interesting and I do believe that the hook should be considered (even if ultimately you choose to ignore it) in the overall look of the pattern. Surely the fish must see it.
I have evidence (from over 1100 stomach autopsies - the result which I showed earlier this year in a chart here on the forum) that the average food size here in the UK is 5mm. That is small, so the visible part on a hook must be seen by the trout. Why it doesn't put them off who knows. Or do they see it as part of the overall pattern?
recently I tied some size 18 hackled flies on a Tiemco 103BL which is black and all I did was add a black hen hackle. No thread down the shank, just a plain old hackle. It worked really well when fish right in the surface to smutting fish. So.....?
Wouldn't be a major coup to interview a trout. I might just do that - hahahahahah

[narcodog]

I maybe incorrect but didn't "Mike" do a dissertation on the subject some time ago? Say the fish are ignoring the hook it's self, so whatever the finish of the hook will affect the color of the finished product. This will occurr when tying with silk.

[Old Hat]

I think that is probably the biggest factor Philip and narcodog. How does the hook finish effect the overall appearance of the fly, especially when wet. A partridge and orange on a black hook is going look much different than a partridge and orange on a crystal hook. The fish must see the hook, but instinctively, the other triggers (size, movement, profile, overall color, etc) must take priority. After all, they only have so many variables they can physiologically process before that possible meal floats by. My guess is "hook" is way down on the list.

[crazy4oldcars]

How many times have you seen bugs on the water "grab" whatever detritus was floating by? This might be a little more relevant when considering terrestrials than aquatics. The fish may take it as something else floating along with the food, and ignore it. I believe their looking for food, and discounting anything that isn't. They see the hook. It isn't food, but what's holding on to it is. The fish can always always separate them after the food is in a more controllable environment.
I've watched aquarium fish grab a piece of food, break it into smaller pieces and spit it out until the food was in swallow-able size pieces. This might also be another reason that fish in moving water go back to a calm place after taking a morsel in current. It's a better place to sort the grain from the chaff.

Kirk

[Roadkill]

Carl

If tying with silk I definitely consider the under color of the hook as I think many of the old traditional tyers did as well. I posted a fly in the tying section under the heading Wet Silk to illustrate hook color showing through wet silk and the subtle change that can occur on a wet fly with translucent materials. I think many of the old tyers understood the translucence of silk allowing the bronze hook to color the fly bodies on such classics as the Partridge and Orange (or Yellow...). On many of my steelhead patterns if I want a truer or brighter color or halo I may under wrap silver tinsel below the body to allow light to bounce back off the hook and affect the dubbing or floss. I have for years tied a red hook midge with nothing but hook and a few turns of white ostrich.

I also remember a discussion with Alec Jackson about how he considered many hook colors and that the bright plated hooks in some light conditions may mirror the surroundings and be more invisible than a black or bronze finish.

[Soft-hackle]

Take a look at this pattern, which, according to Roy Christie, is one of his most successful.

http://www.danica.com/flytier/rchristie ... s_mask.htm

Years ago, when I use to take an occasional trout for the table, stomach autopsies also reveal a large amount of flotsam in the stomachs. Were these fish taking the flotsam as food? I think so. If it looks like food, acts like food, it is food--gulp! Do trout ignore the hook? I think so, for the most part, however, on some patterns, the trout probably consider it part of the food. What part? Who knows what their tiny brains are seeing? None of us are sure, and that is what makes it all so interesting.

Mark