Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
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Jim Slattery
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Re: Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
As close to 90 degrees as possible. Let the water sweep it back.. I suppose if I were to slant it back I would opt for a shorter thorax length hackle or perhaps 2 hackles with diferent colors and sizes.
Re: Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
HANS,
I LIKE THEM ALL AND THESE GUYS ARE RIGHT. THEY ARE ALL "FISH-GETTERS". I HAVE A FEELING YOU MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR SOME ANSWERS THAT MAY HAVE TO DO WITH HOW THE HACKLE IS TIED ON. AM I CORRECT? LET ME EXPLAIN!
THERE SEEMS TO BE THESE DAYS THREE SEPERATE SCHOOLS OF APPLYING A HACKLE (SOFT-HACKLE) FEATHER TO A HOOK. IF I AM WRONG FELLOWS, PLEASE CORRECT ME!
THE FIRST IS: TYING ON THE FEATHER BY THE BUTT THEN WRAPPING IT FORWARD (JUST A SPARSE 2-3 TURNS) AND TYING IT OFF AT THE TIP.
THE SECOND IS: PULLING THE BARBS DOWNWARD AND TYING AT THE TIP OF THE HACKLE AND THEN TYING OFF AT THE BUTT END OF THE FEATHER. THIS SEEMS TO BE THE MOST POPULAR WAY THESE DAYS TO HACKLE (SOFT-HACKLE) A WET FLY.
THE THIRD IS: TYING A HEN HACKLE IN BY THE BUTT END AND ALLOWING IT TO POINT OUT OVER THE EYE OF THE HOOK. THIS IS DONE FIRST AS IN TYING A FLYMPH AND THE HACKLE IS WOUND BACK OVER ROUGHLY THE FIRST 1/3 TO 1/2 THE DUBBED BODY.
THE CURIOUS THING ABOUT THESE THREE METHODS IS THE FLIES DO HAVE A DIFFERENT LOOK ABOUT THEM DEPENDING ON WHICH METHOD YOU CHOOSE. THE HACKLE FIBERS SLANT GRACEFULLY AND NATURALLY BACKWARDS IN METHOD ONE AND TO MOST OF US THAT IS PROBABLY THE MOST PLEASING TO OUR EYES. METHOD TWO OFFERS THE SHORTEST FIBERS BEHIND THE LONGEST FIBERS AND MAY LOOK MORE "BUGGY" WHILE THE GRACEFUL SLANT MAY NOT BE AS APPARENT. I GUESS METHOD THREE IS ALMOST IN A CLASS BY ITSELF BECAUSE OF THE TYPE OF FLY IT'S ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY USED ON. IT IS A GREAT WAY TO HACKLE A FLYMPH OVER A DUBBED BODY AND THEN REINFORCE THOSE FIBERS WITH A FEW TURNS OF THE TYING THREAD. SOME OF THE NEATEST, SMALLEST, AND COOLEST LOOKING HEADS ARE ON THE FLYMPHS I TIE IN THIS WAY BECAUSE THERE IS NO EXCESS BUILD UP OF THREAD TRYING TO COVER UP THE STUMP OF THE HACKLE STEM AND THEN A HEAD ON TOP OF THAT!
DOES ONE METHOD CATCH MORE FISH THAN ANY OF THE OTHERS? I'LL BE WAITING FOR YOUR REPLIES!!
HANS, AM I BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE WHEN YOU ASKED ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES IN THE LOOKS OF YOUR FLIES ABOVE? I AM IN AWE OF THE BREADTH AND DEPTH OF YOUR TALENTS BEHIND THE VICE. THE QUESTION ABOVE IS FASCINATING TO ME! PLEASE KEEP THEM COMING!
CURIOUS FROM THE DEN,
DOUGSDEN
I LIKE THEM ALL AND THESE GUYS ARE RIGHT. THEY ARE ALL "FISH-GETTERS". I HAVE A FEELING YOU MIGHT BE LOOKING FOR SOME ANSWERS THAT MAY HAVE TO DO WITH HOW THE HACKLE IS TIED ON. AM I CORRECT? LET ME EXPLAIN!
THERE SEEMS TO BE THESE DAYS THREE SEPERATE SCHOOLS OF APPLYING A HACKLE (SOFT-HACKLE) FEATHER TO A HOOK. IF I AM WRONG FELLOWS, PLEASE CORRECT ME!
THE FIRST IS: TYING ON THE FEATHER BY THE BUTT THEN WRAPPING IT FORWARD (JUST A SPARSE 2-3 TURNS) AND TYING IT OFF AT THE TIP.
THE SECOND IS: PULLING THE BARBS DOWNWARD AND TYING AT THE TIP OF THE HACKLE AND THEN TYING OFF AT THE BUTT END OF THE FEATHER. THIS SEEMS TO BE THE MOST POPULAR WAY THESE DAYS TO HACKLE (SOFT-HACKLE) A WET FLY.
THE THIRD IS: TYING A HEN HACKLE IN BY THE BUTT END AND ALLOWING IT TO POINT OUT OVER THE EYE OF THE HOOK. THIS IS DONE FIRST AS IN TYING A FLYMPH AND THE HACKLE IS WOUND BACK OVER ROUGHLY THE FIRST 1/3 TO 1/2 THE DUBBED BODY.
THE CURIOUS THING ABOUT THESE THREE METHODS IS THE FLIES DO HAVE A DIFFERENT LOOK ABOUT THEM DEPENDING ON WHICH METHOD YOU CHOOSE. THE HACKLE FIBERS SLANT GRACEFULLY AND NATURALLY BACKWARDS IN METHOD ONE AND TO MOST OF US THAT IS PROBABLY THE MOST PLEASING TO OUR EYES. METHOD TWO OFFERS THE SHORTEST FIBERS BEHIND THE LONGEST FIBERS AND MAY LOOK MORE "BUGGY" WHILE THE GRACEFUL SLANT MAY NOT BE AS APPARENT. I GUESS METHOD THREE IS ALMOST IN A CLASS BY ITSELF BECAUSE OF THE TYPE OF FLY IT'S ALMOST EXCLUSIVELY USED ON. IT IS A GREAT WAY TO HACKLE A FLYMPH OVER A DUBBED BODY AND THEN REINFORCE THOSE FIBERS WITH A FEW TURNS OF THE TYING THREAD. SOME OF THE NEATEST, SMALLEST, AND COOLEST LOOKING HEADS ARE ON THE FLYMPHS I TIE IN THIS WAY BECAUSE THERE IS NO EXCESS BUILD UP OF THREAD TRYING TO COVER UP THE STUMP OF THE HACKLE STEM AND THEN A HEAD ON TOP OF THAT!
DOES ONE METHOD CATCH MORE FISH THAN ANY OF THE OTHERS? I'LL BE WAITING FOR YOUR REPLIES!!
HANS, AM I BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE WHEN YOU ASKED ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES IN THE LOOKS OF YOUR FLIES ABOVE? I AM IN AWE OF THE BREADTH AND DEPTH OF YOUR TALENTS BEHIND THE VICE. THE QUESTION ABOVE IS FASCINATING TO ME! PLEASE KEEP THEM COMING!
CURIOUS FROM THE DEN,
DOUGSDEN
Fish when you can, not when you should! Anything short of this is just a disaster.
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Liam
Re: Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
I would have to say #3 for game birds, but if I'm using hen chicken I prefer #1.
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Hans Weilenmann
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Re: Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
Dougsden,
All three flies, and indeed any of my hackled flies, be they wet or dry, have the hackle tied in by the butt, as the first material on the hook, and are only wrapped away from the eye once the remainder of the pattern has been completed.
I did force certain slants to make a set of three with each their distinct look. I was and am not seeking a single correct answer with my question posed. There is no single correct answer, just 1. gauging personal preferences, and 2. make the collar suit specific requirements.
Cheers,
Hans W
KindaHANS, AM I BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE WHEN YOU ASKED ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES IN THE LOOKS OF YOUR FLIES ABOVE?
All three flies, and indeed any of my hackled flies, be they wet or dry, have the hackle tied in by the butt, as the first material on the hook, and are only wrapped away from the eye once the remainder of the pattern has been completed.
I did force certain slants to make a set of three with each their distinct look. I was and am not seeking a single correct answer with my question posed. There is no single correct answer, just 1. gauging personal preferences, and 2. make the collar suit specific requirements.
Cheers,
Hans W
Re: Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
HANS,
EXCELLENT! THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME WITH ME AND OTHERS HERE! HERE'S TO THE FUTURE!
DOUGSDEN
EXCELLENT! THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME WITH ME AND OTHERS HERE! HERE'S TO THE FUTURE!
DOUGSDEN
Fish when you can, not when you should! Anything short of this is just a disaster.
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Soft-hackle
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Re: Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
Okay, Hans,
I'll play, BUT I'm not sure you'll like my answer. For the most part, my flies are tied more like number 1, HOWEVER, I tie flies all three ways. It depends upon their application. Each hackle angle lends itself more to one approach or another.
Mark
I'll play, BUT I'm not sure you'll like my answer. For the most part, my flies are tied more like number 1, HOWEVER, I tie flies all three ways. It depends upon their application. Each hackle angle lends itself more to one approach or another.
Mark
"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty.” Edward R. Hewitt
http://www.libstudio.com/FS&S
http://www.libstudio.com/FS&S
Re: Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
Not trying to be offensive or anything, but to be brutally honest and maybe it's just a pragmatic Kiwi view but really to my mind, it does not matter one iota what angle the hackle is on. We are talking about fooling a creature with a brain the size of a pea. (OK maybe a brain the size of a crabapple for NZ trout, but the proprotion is just the same.. 
)
It comes down to one thing: Presentation... Sorry, but that's my view. The angle of the hackle is irrelevant, just like the attitude of the insect the fly is representing. The insect is in any of a million given random positions as it drifts downstream (in any type of water) and the trout will take it if it thinks it's food and worth eating. 'Cause thats what they do: Eat to live to procreate. Present the fly in the best manner possible according to your abilities, and they will eat it irrespective of the hackle being 30 degrees, 45 degrees, 60 degrees or X degrees.
IMHO The only vaguely good thing about hackle angle is what we percieve about it and how much confidence it instills in how we fish it, but at the end of the cold hard light of day the exact same fly duplicated 5 times with the only difference being the angle of the hackle??
Come on. Present it right and the fish will eat it.
In (some parts of) northern Italy they tie their soft hackles facing distinctly forward and they catch fish. In other parts of the world anglers tie their flies at X, Y or Z angle forward or back and they catch fish.
Presentation.
Sorry Hans. Running and ducking pragmatic Kiwi.
Been a long hard working week.
)It comes down to one thing: Presentation... Sorry, but that's my view. The angle of the hackle is irrelevant, just like the attitude of the insect the fly is representing. The insect is in any of a million given random positions as it drifts downstream (in any type of water) and the trout will take it if it thinks it's food and worth eating. 'Cause thats what they do: Eat to live to procreate. Present the fly in the best manner possible according to your abilities, and they will eat it irrespective of the hackle being 30 degrees, 45 degrees, 60 degrees or X degrees.
IMHO The only vaguely good thing about hackle angle is what we percieve about it and how much confidence it instills in how we fish it, but at the end of the cold hard light of day the exact same fly duplicated 5 times with the only difference being the angle of the hackle??
Come on. Present it right and the fish will eat it.
In (some parts of) northern Italy they tie their soft hackles facing distinctly forward and they catch fish. In other parts of the world anglers tie their flies at X, Y or Z angle forward or back and they catch fish.
Presentation.
Sorry Hans. Running and ducking pragmatic Kiwi.
Been a long hard working week.
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Hans Weilenmann
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Re: Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
Johnno,
I did not suggest one slant was better than the other, and am in fact as pragmatic (or more so) than you in my tying. It is mostly a matter of personal preference, the look&feel the tier prefers, when it comes to the generally mobile hackle barbs on these wingless wets.
Cheers,
Hans W
I did not suggest one slant was better than the other, and am in fact as pragmatic (or more so) than you in my tying. It is mostly a matter of personal preference, the look&feel the tier prefers, when it comes to the generally mobile hackle barbs on these wingless wets.
Cheers,
Hans W
Re: Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
It is mostly a matter of personal preference, the look & feel the tier prefers
We are in agreement!! The Confidence factor....
I have been far too busy and have not been fishing for some 4 weeks. Maybe next week....
Cheers.
We are in agreement!! The Confidence factor....
I have been far too busy and have not been fishing for some 4 weeks. Maybe next week....
Cheers.
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billc
Re: Which hackle collar slant do you aim for in your tying?
Johnno,
no need for any ducking as I think you are right......I have regular battles with my "color is everything" friends along these same lines as they work on getting just the right shade of olive . With a thousand variables contributing to every cast, coming to any firm conclusions about why one fly worked and another didn't is 'challenging' at best . As you said its all about making this stuff look like food and alot of what we concentrate on, while these patterns are in the vise, likely has little to do with that and often is probably counterproductive.
Its just those dam* nice pics Hans throws up all the time
and the fact a surprising amount of folks tie for the pleasure of tying. I know more than a handful that don't even fish. Can't get my mind around that myself but if it makes em happy ..........
no need for any ducking as I think you are right......I have regular battles with my "color is everything" friends along these same lines as they work on getting just the right shade of olive . With a thousand variables contributing to every cast, coming to any firm conclusions about why one fly worked and another didn't is 'challenging' at best . As you said its all about making this stuff look like food and alot of what we concentrate on, while these patterns are in the vise, likely has little to do with that and often is probably counterproductive.
Its just those dam* nice pics Hans throws up all the time
and the fact a surprising amount of folks tie for the pleasure of tying. I know more than a handful that don't even fish. Can't get my mind around that myself but if it makes em happy ..........