Hooks

[DOUGSDEN]

I have reading with great interest these post on hooks. Nearly all of the hooks mentioned with the exception of Mustad brand are (forgive me if I have missed a brand with this statement) are reletively "modern". I remember the quantum leap that hook qualities took on when Tiemco came on the scene. The point, needle sharp right out of the package. The barb, which seems to be just right in height for holding fish esp. bigger ones. The shape of the hook which has exploded in recent years with many "specialty" hooks now offered. The finish, much finer than it used to be. I am glad that there are so many fine hooks avail. these days from alot of different manufacturers. It has made us all better tiers and definately more confident fishers.
I plainly remember the first flies that I tied with Tiemco brand hooks and the hooking qualities that these patterns had. Do you?
I have to add that I am glad to see Mustads quality has come up in recent years from what they used to be. They have responded well to market demands and kept their cost within reason.
The topics here just get better and better. WOW! What a great forum!
Dougsden

[tie2fish]

My love affair with wet flies is a relatively recent thing, so I have no memory of "old" hooks designed for sub-surface use. However, I still prefer the Mustad 94840 to all other dry fly hooks down through Size 16 (the 18's seem to have a disproportionally long shank). I find other brands and Mustad's new "improved" versions to be simply much more expensive with no corresponding improvements in design or function when it comes to hooking and holding fish.

[narcodog]

Don't forget the Kamasan and Daiichi are the same hooks. Sometimes I get overwhelmed with a design more than know quality. I bought some Dohiku 302SP's that look just great but I found that the eyes are not closed as well as they should,IMO. As far a as strength I have not had a problem, but they look good. Jim S. turned me onto the Daiichi and as I've said in the past I have not had problems with them on the size of fish I catch. The same with the Grip hooks I like the design. One of the problems I have is I tie so many flies I don't hardly remember what is tied on what. I will say that I have not broken any hooks as that I can remember but a few have been straightened somewhat.

I always come back to the vintage Mustads, I have stocked up so maybe they will last for awhile.

[willowhead]

i've had a few Dai Riki hooks straighten on me, and one or two actually break.....but that will happen every now and again no matter what hook you use.....i don't really think about it much in terms of a lost fish here or there. There's always another fish. For fishing i like Gamakatsu a lot.....sharp as hell and strong. Plus they look pretty good.....but for a fishin' fly, looks really doen't matter much.
i like the way Kamasan hooks look and to whomever said they are the same as Daiichi............i dunno.....they sure don't look the same. i've gotta lotta both and i've never noticed them being even close to eachother. Actually i don't have anywhere near as many Kamasan as i do Daiichi.....but i have NO Daiichi that look even close to the Kamasan i have. Mustad is fine for fishing, as are almost all hooks that i've ever tried. Chemically sharpened hooks are a good bet for hooking power of course. And i like to use a mini barb if the regs. allow it. Yes, i've hooked myself a time or two.....but hey, no pain no gain.....sometimes. You just cut the hook, and pull a mini barb right on through, and keep fishin'. Yeah i rastle aligators too. Hell i taught Daniel Boone how to hunt, and how to make them Coon skin hats as well. Got tired of him buggin' me all the time so i sent him off to the Alamo..... Or was that Davy Crocket.....he was a pain in the butt too.

[daringduffer]

Mustad hooks? I just ordered a couple of boxes.

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Use your discount code X-mas when checking out in shop!

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dd

[Jerry G]

I realize this is like addressing the price of candy to a bunch of kids drooling over jars of sweets in a candy store but don't you think hook prices have gotten just a little nuts? Okay so I'm frugal, alright cheap then if you insist.

Now I fully understand the need of a quality price when hand craftsmanship enters into the making of a hook. I can even buckle under to larger hooks that are mass produced and yet quality is paramount in the production demanding a high price. I do though think that the price of the average hook most of us on this board are wrapping silk, fur and feathers around is getting out of hand. Oh I know it's all about supply and demand but wouldn't you think with all the name brands of hooks out there there would be some sort of price competitiveness. As has been mentioned here in this thread obviously there are still quality concerns with some brands being brittle and others soft of which I have also on occasion run into. I suspect the add hype of how much shaper the new generation of hook is has sold a lot of hooks and quite possibly was at least one of the factors in you and I justifying the price. Think about it though, didn't a lot of old Mustad hooks catch a lot of fish? I guess Mustad still holds an edge in pricing which has me wondering what the heck we're buying anything else for. It has been some time ago now that I seen a video of an interview with a representative from Mustad. This was after they had switched the numbering of hooks and were still in the process of eliminating some of the old styles from their inventory. They now had the sharp point and micro barb. This fellow stated that with the new equipment they had for making these hooks they were able to make them at less cost than they were the old style hook. Now if Mustad is able to do that and turn at least some of this savings back to you and I what gives with the rest of these outfits? Or are we the ones at fault thinking that price actually dictates quality in a hook?

Regards, Jerry

[Soft-hackle]

Jerry,
Not at all. I've used Mustad 3399A hooks for years, and they've always worked for me. They were, at one time, way cheaper per 100 than any of the other Mustad fly hooks. When I look at hooks I also look at value, quality, and performance.

A good example is Mustad's C53S


As compared to the Daiichi 1260


They look like the same hook, however a closer look reveals (as Hans so nicely pointed out to me)that the set of the bend on the Mustad C53S makes the barb upturn at a steeper angle than the 1260, which a bit more open for better hooking.

In another forum, I had someone tell me they liked and used Saber brand hooks without any problems for years. I've never used them. I've also had fishermen tell me they were not that good. I guess the only way to tell is try them. I never have, but here's link.

http://www.flyshack.com/DisplayCategory.aspx?CatID=640

Mark

[William Anderson]

Mark, I've tied a bunch of stonefly patterns and some long slender mayfly pattenrs on that Daiichi 1260. Beautiful hook, and as I've mentioned I have a lot of confidence in the Daiichi family.

w

[willowhead]

Daiichi makes a damn fine hook.....no doubt. Jerry.....your invloved here with opinions and ******** when it comes to some of it. Like you said, "try it." You might like it. Unless you tye one whole hell-of-a-lotta flies.....really, what difference does it make if you spend $150 a year on hooks or $200. Sure, it make $50 difference.....but won't you just spend that on something else related? And if you tye commerically and or do shows.....you need to hook yourself up a hooks deal. All i'm gettin' at, is it aint gonna change.....marketing does play a big part in all of it. And "somebody" gotta pay for that. People wanna save money, buy your flies and give up fly tyin'.

[Otter]

Have to disagree with you willowhead.

Anglers have for years been for the most part paying way too much. You in a previous post decreed that angling is not a sport and I agree entirely in that premise, that we should not treat it as such. Yet you are at loggerheads with this premise when you try and justify the inflated prices anglers are been charged for stuff - its all part of the commercial marketing that presents angling as a sport. Sorry Willowhead, you cannnot have the cake and eat it.

I am sure that I am not the only angler / fly tier that is sick to death of the rampant commercial exploitation of our simple pursuit.