Spencer

[Ruard]

I read about bumbles in the book of T.C.Kingsmill More, A man may fish. I am aware that there are also bumbles in Derbishire(?) and perhaps they are older but perhaps some else on this forum know something of them. these bumbles are tied using stiff cockhackles, so nothing that resembles softhackles. It seems to me that the mixing of the colours is essential.

Here is the quotation of this book:

And now the Bumbles. Whereas the Kingsmill was developed on the basis of trial and error, the Bumbles had an element of theory behind them from the beginning. In the last chapter I mentioned how I had been struck by the neglect of Irish flydressers to combine their own flair for colour combination and translucency with the English Bumble type of construction. I wanted to see if I could make good this omission and construct a type of fly which would suggest the characteristics of surface life, though without any attempt at imitation. The patterns must be translucent, must have a certain amount of gleam without dazzle, must have gentle and not gaudy contrasts, and must if possible suggest the movement of insects caught in the surface film or blown along by the wind.

My first attempts those foreshadowed in an old school notebook were along the lines of a salmon "Grub," a hackle at the shoulder and another of a different colour half way down the body. They were reasonably, but not conspicuously, successful. Next I extended the area covered by the hackles so that they covered, between them, the whole body. This gave two contrasting bands of colour which pleased neither me nor the trout. Finally I hit on the plan of tying in the two hackles at the same point and winding them along the body together, so that their fibres were commingled. Success followed immediately. The two colours no longer showed as distinct entities. Each was bathed in the reflections from the other, so that a perfect combination resulted. The effect in the hand was of one single colour, and, without magnifying glass, people shown these flies for the first time often refuse to believe that two hackles of different colours have been used. Held up to the light, while there is still a fusing of colour, the hackle points gleam here and there in sparkles of their individual colour, giving a vivid suggestion of life and movement.



Greeting

[GlassJet]

"Almost a bumble"... as an ignorant west side of the ponder, just what makes a bumble a bumble and not just a palmered fly?

You wouldn't understand...

To be perfectly honest, I don't know, is the simple answer. The bumble is clearly a palmered fly, so I guess we could say it is a sub-set of the palmered flies?

The colour blending, influenced by the Irish style in Kingsmill More's versions, is mentioned in Ruard's quote. But I think that is Kingsmill More's contribution to the bumble, rather than its original form.

If you look up bumble in Courtney Williams' dictionary of trout flies, he says that they are: 'famous Derbyshire patterns of the wet palmer type.' He then lists five or six which just have a single colour hackle palmered the length of the fly. There is no mention of Kingsmill More's version - as A Man May Fish was published in 1960 I think, whereas the dictionary - though my edition is 1965 - was written in the forties. Not been updated, basically.

But I do remember reading somewhere that the bumble is a seriously old pattern, and was first mentioned in connection with Derbyshire hundreds of years ago. Trouble is, can't remember where i saw that now! Probably attributed to Cotton, I wonder? Dunno. But researching bumbles is very much on my 'to do' list, so when I get around to it, I'll let you know!

It is probably as simple as 'Bumble' being the Derbyshire term for palmered wet fly!

Andrew.

[trouttickler]

Thanks for the replies, although I'm still somewhat confused. I vaugely remember Bumbles being mentioned in one of Halford's books, Dry Fly Entomology I think, but I may be mistaken. If that is the case, then it has also been used as a dry fly(not that there's anything wrong with that!)

[GlassJet]

Thanks for the replies, although I'm still somewhat confused. I vaugely remember Bumbles being mentioned in one of Halford's books, Dry Fly Entomology I think, but I may be mistaken. If that is the case, then it has also been used as a dry fly(not that there's anything wrong with that!)

Yes, that's right - Halford and dries mentioned in the Courtney Williams' dictionary. I just didn't want to confuse the issue...

[trouttickler]

Thanks GlassJet. Please keep us posted on anything your research turns up. I'm still curious about the origins of the bumble. Bye the bye, like your flies,they look eminantly fishable.

[Old Hat]

I have to admit I love the quote "a certain amount of gleam without the dazzle." That's just perfect.

[Johnno]

Mark,

"Orange Fish Hawk"

I always thought of the Fish Hawk as a brown bodied fly. Is there a common orange bodied version as well?

[Old Hat]

Orange Fish hawk recipe from plate #14 (dry fly) of Trout by Ray Bergman, 1938.

Body: Orange floss
Rib: Gold tinsel
Tip: Gold Tinsel
Hackle: Badger light

[Johnno]

ahh OK. There is a Brown Fish Hawk (winged wet) in my edition, plate 4. Thats the one I am familiar with. Another version I suppose.

[GlassJet]

Thanks GlassJet. Please keep us posted on anything your research turns up. I'm still curious about the origins of the bumble.

Hi,
By the nature of coincidences, I was asked to write something in a hurry that included info about bumbles this week, so dug a little deeper into it.

Palmered wet flies have been fished in Derbyshire (UK) for hundreds of years, (I am sure in many other regions too, but if you re-arrange the sentence 'History is written by the winners' you can get something like: 'whoever writes it down wins history'!) and Charles Cotton gives a few patterns, writing in the mid 1600's.

According to Watson, J.N., Angling with the Fly: Flies and Anglers of Derbyshire and Staffordshire, Smith Settle, 2008. the term 'bumble' was first written down by Ogden in 1864, reporting them, I am given to understand, as renamed palmers.

So my suspicion is, the term 'bumble' is indeed just a dialect one, meaning palmered, local to Derbyshire. And these old 'bumbles' were wet flies, tied with hen hackles. But it is rather a nice name, isn't it? Conjures up split-cane rods, brimmed hats and summer days, maybe a snooze beneath a tree...

Then along came Halford and tied the bumble as a dry, using cock hackle, and I suspect it is this that T.C. Kingsmill Moore (Or T.C. Kingsmoor Mill, as I referred to him in the first draft of the story - good job that one didn't get through! ) is referring to when he gave the 'English bumble' the irish treatment, by using two cock hackles of contrasting colours and winding them together so the barbs intermingled. (Ruard posted the extract further up this thread) He published six such bumbles in 'A man may fish', 1960.

However, for the purposes of my story, I had to find a link between the Derbyshire Bumble, and Kingsmill Moore's Claret Bumble, and in a roundabout way there is, with a slight detour via Halford, I suspect. But I wasn't going to let that stand in the way of a good yarn.

So, to answer your original question, trouttickler, as to what the difference is between a bumble and a wet palmer, the answer is: none whatsoever. Probably. Unless anyone knows differently?

All a bit of fun speculation. Story going in Irish Country Sports magazine, summer edition, out in a couple of weeks. Thought I'd get in a shameless plug there at the end...

Andrew