Dave Hughes Video - Flymph Tying Demonstration (YouTube)

[Roadkill]

I have used Ray's method in taming a twisty hackle. The same 180 degree change in orientation can be made with the dull feather side tied in toward the shaft by bending the feather down toward and past the shaft to begin the tying rotation instead of away from the shaft. Look at Plate III in TAOTTWF&FtF or the cover illustartion. If that feather(dull side in) is pulled down on the far side of the hook shank the flattened stem side without the barbules is pulled against the hook and the dull(concave) side is now facing back toward the hook bend.

The object in both ways of tying is to get the prepared stripped flattened side of the feather next to the hook. Sometimes for me on "twisty" feathers as identified by Hoffman, a 180 degree reversal of tying direction of the hackle brings a difficult feather into line.

As I have said before on the forum there is more than one way to skin a cat or tie in a feather. I almost always tie in by the tip so I seldom use any of these tie in by the shaft methods.

[DUBBN]

Agreed on using Rays method for taming a twisted hackle. I have too. I am not as eloquent in describing the technique.

Still, Mr. Hughes did not have a twisted feather. He simply tied it in incorrectly. Then blamed the feather. It is obvious to me, but may not be to you.

At the end of the day we all make mistakes. Some of us own up to them , others make excuses. Human nature.

[Jerry G]

Having now viewed the Hughs video four times and most the other's offered at least once each It gave me opportunity to reflect back on problems I have had in attempting to wrap hackle. Have any of you experienced more difficulty in getting that first wrap of hackle to climb up on the Gossamer silk than what you experience with a smaller diameter tying thread? Have you found it easier to start your wraps when the side of the hackle to be wrapped against the hook shank has had barbs stripped away such as Hans has shown? Do you find it easier to manipulate a hackle with a mind of it own using a hackle plier such as Hans is using?

Regards, Jerry

[tie2fish]

Here are my several cents worth on the flymph tying video:

I thought when I watched Mr. Hughes tie in that hackle feather that he was going to have trouble with it, as it seemed to roll over the top of the shank enough to compromise its positioning. And while we're critiquing the demonstration, it should also be noted that despite the fact that he twice mentioned laying down the dubbing on the waxed thread in a tapered shape before spinning the body, he proceeded to do otherwise. The fact that he ended up with a semblance of a tapered body on the fly was mostly a tribute to his manipulation of the pre-spun dubbing during the wrapping process. All that being said, we as flymphers should give much deserved credit to Mr. Hughes for keeping the Leisenring/Hidy story alive and well on today's fly tying scene.

As for getting the hackle wraps started, I have found that if, during the hackle tie-in process, you make a single wrap of thread directly in front of the hackle after seating it with a couple of tight wraps behind, you will have less difficulty getting the first hackle wrap started when the time comes. Also, it helps considerably in getting the stem/barbs properly oriented if you place your right thumbnail between the hook eye and the hackle tie-in point while you make the initial wrap using your left hand. Finally, my experience with hackle wrapping in general is that having the axis of your hackle pliers in line with the centerline of the feather makes controlling the wraps some easier. For this reason, I use English-style hackle pliers and attempt to clip them onto the end of the feather looking down the stem from the tip.

[Old Hat]

Well, I had to watch the video.

There is no doubt in my mind that Hughes tied the hackle in correctly. Now he didn't tie the hackle on top of the hook. The hackle was a bit on his tying side but the orientation of the hackle was still correct. The concave side was directly at the camera. Had it been tied on top, the concave side would be facing up and the fibers positioned with the correct presentation.

Whether the hackle had a twist or not I don't know. I doubt it had a twist. It looks like he twisted it when he first grabbed it and may have set a twist in it when he did that. I think he basically did what Ray is talking about but made the problem twist instead of correcting a twist. If he had done the next two steps below, I don't think he would have had the problem.

I alleviate this by doing two things specifically.

1. I don't strip the whole side of the feather like Han's does, which does help to alleviate this, but I do strip a little bit more off of the far side of the stem (enough for about one wrap). When you strip some fibers off the stem it takes a bit of the stem with it. This slightly flattens that side of the stem and allows the feather to "set" correctly on the initial wrap. If you look closely at Hughes's hackle when he ties it in he has a few more fibers missing from one side of the feather at the tie in point. However, these are from the wrong side of the feather and may have been a culprit in the feather going the wrong way initially.

2. I do something that neither of these (Hughes or Hans) gentlemen showed. I think it is in AOTWF, but not sure. Before you begin to wrap the hackle, push the hackle back bending it at a 90 degree angle to the hook shank.

Doing these two things, I never have any problems with twist or climbing up onto the thread base.

Either way he definitely didn't take the care need to see that the hackle set correctly.

But it all doesn't really matter, because it turned into a fine flymph regardless.

[DUBBN]

I tie the feather on the far side of the hook. As long as the feather has its shiny side facing the eye you will have no problems. The hook shank is round. You can tie the feather any where on the 360 degree radius and it will wrap fine. Hughes has the feathers dull side facing the eye.

[letumgo]

Carl - Excellent points. I remember Mark Libertone and Vern Burm showing me the 90° bend trick during their tying demonstrations here in Buffalo. I have since adopted the bend into my bag of tricks.

Wayne - I like your frame of reference. I have always thought of the tyer as the point of reference (i.e. - the dull side is facing the tyer, or the shiny side is facing the tyer). Your frame of reference makes a lot more sense. Your frame of reference is equally true for right handed and left handed handed tyers.

Thanks for posting your comment. Once again I learned something.

[Jim Slattery]

Dave tied it in in a way that he should have wrapped it counter clockwise. Then it wouldn't have "twisted". Certainly not the way most would have tied it and probably not the way he usually ties it in.
He's a good guy and has done a lot for the sport. Probably thought he had a twisted hackle. With a audience and all not to hard to get out of sorts.

[DUBBN]

Dave tied it in in a way that he should have wrapped it counter clockwise. Then it wouldn't have "twisted". Certainly not the way most would have tied it and probably not the way he usually ties it in.
He's a good guy and has done a lot for the sport. Probably thought he had a twisted hackle. With a audience and all not to hard to get out of sorts.

I agree, he probably was out of sorts, and that is quite understandable.

In my way of thinking, the feather will wrap with the barbs facing in the same direction be it clockwise, or counter clockwise. The stem of the feather is lashed down perpendicular to the hook shank. Had he tyed the feather in properly the barbs would have slanted back towards the bend of the hook no matter which direction they are wrapped. If I am wrong, please explain and let me know where my thought process broke down.

[Hans Weilenmann]

1. I don't strip the whole side of the feather like Han's does, which does help to alleviate this, but I do strip a little bit more off of the far side of the stem (enough for about one wrap). When you strip some fibers off the stem it takes a bit of the stem with it. This slightly flattens that side of the stem and allows the feather to "set" correctly on the initial wrap.

Hi Carl,

Indeed. I strip all barbs, or just a few, depending on the feather, and the desired result

Cheers,
Hans W