Yorkshire Spider (John Shaner's Collection)

[raven4ns]

Hello,
When I look at a fly, especially a salmon fly, it's the colors that strike me as well as the parts of the fly i.e. the tail, tag, butt, wings etc. With many trout flies what strikes me is the simplicity of the fly such as the Usual or the Orange & Partridge. Once I have digested the elegance, it is all about the fly's effectiveness and that is what has had the biggest impact on my tying. Looking at the elegance of some of the flies that many of you have produced as compared to my fishing flies, I would be embarrassed to show my flies and I am not being overly modest.
My flies are tied to catch trout so I tend not to be concerned they may look rather crude at times. In addition, since the trout and I are the only ones to see them I am not very fussy as to how they look as long as they catch trout. If I knew I had to show people my flies or had to sell them then I'm sure I would be more careful. However, the only one I have to sell on my fly is the trout. Like many of you, I love trout fishing, it is the one place in the world I am truly at peace as I wade along a little stream hunting for trout. This is what the trout gives to me and I in return let him swim away after saying hello. My rather crude flies provide me a tool to make this happen but if their lack of finesse significantly impacted my ability to enjoy the peace I spoke of then I would use more care in making them.
For now, I truly enjoy seeing what a gifted tyer can do with a bit of thread, hair, feathers and hook. Seeing what many of you create with your patience and abilities has to have a positive impact even on my tying. I refer to the flies I make as fishing flies, not really meant to be seen, yet for all their imperfections they seem to work or at least good enough for me.
This is a topic I hadn't given much thought to until now. In some part of my tying is an attempt to imitate the fly that John has showed us as well as what I see on here daily. That alone should help improve the quality of my tying, I hope, but the defining aspect will always remain the fly's effectiveness.

[letumgo]

This is exactly the sort of discussion I was hoping to see. The questions and the answers have been fascinating.

Good eyes Jeff - I noticed the same thing with the herl head. Do we know for certain the Pritt pattern, then for the first fly? I would like to post a link, and include the fly number from Pritt, for people to read and compare with the original fly.

Here is a second fly from John's collection of Yorkshire spiders, to stoke the discussion.



What a beautiful fly...

Take a close look at the base of the hackle, and the herl head of this fly. They have been reinforced with fine metal wire, which I am sure added to their durability.

John - Can you identify the hackle on this fly?

[letumgo]

However, the only one I have to sell on my fly is the trout. Like many of you, I love trout fishing, it is the one place in the world I am truly at peace as I wade along a little stream hunting for trout. This is what the trout gives to me and I in return let him swim away after saying hello.

Well said Tim. Your words resonate with me.

[letumgo]

Here is another photo to illustrate John's description of how small these flies are:


The coin in the photo is a USA dime, which measures 17.9 millimeters (0.705 inch) in diameter.

John - I am curious to know if you needed to do anything to restore the appearance of these flies, after they came out of the fly wallet. Did you need to steam the flies, to restore them to shape? I would expect them to be somewhat flattened, but they look like someone just finished tying them. Amazing.

[Mataura mayfly]

Number 2 is a pretty fly- one I would be happy to fish here without question.
What a nifty touch with the wire reinforcing. Do not think I have ever seen the like before. You would think it would be easier to position the silk behind the hackle, wrap the hackle and bring the tying thread through to reinforce. Maybe the wire was deemed a closer colour match to the hackle, less of a contrast as the tying thread would be? Or is there another reason for this addition of material to such a small fly?

[Greenwell]

I really like this particular fly, it appears to be a Snipe & Purple with the addition of a bit of peacock at the head, again, a fairly common design element at the time. In the photo of the flies compared to the dime, it's at 3 O'clock so that will give you size perspective.

The wire reinforcement of the hackle is something I don't recall seeing anywhere else. Some other flies in the HWC collection have this feature but it's not ubiquitous. And I can't recall seeing mention of this technique in the literature. If for some reason I did come across it I can't remember. Perhaps one of you can reference this if you've seen it. It's certainly a great concept, fairly obvious, not hard to employ in a dressing, and would make a much more durable tie. I'm going to try it!

Another thing to notice is the tie-off point is at the end of the body rather than behind the hackle or at the head in the conventional manner. A very neat and convenient method of finishing a thread bodied Spider.

All in all, I think this fly really epitomizes the true North Country Spider style. Body length, hackle length and attitude, overall sparseness of the dressing, and classic proportions all add up to make a beautiful, durable, and effective fly. These guys knew what they were doing 130 years ago, and my own flies are beginning to look much more like this example all the time.

[letumgo]

John - Do you have any information on the hook used in this fly? One of the things which caught my eye, is the offset point. This surprised me when I was seeing the flies firsthand. I did not realize offset hooks were used back then.

Having a rearward tie off would also make an even more slender body profile and I imagine a more translucent body, because there is only a single layer of silk along the body. They underlying gut leader may also be an important design component. Did the gut leaders become more clear when they are wet? They look so thick for the hook size.

[Greenwell]

Ray, The hooks are Harrison and Bartleet or W. Bartleet & Sons "Kendall Sneck Bent". The offset was a very common feature of fly hooks, especially English hooks, until quite recently. Most smaller fly hooks were either "Kirbed", bent to the left, or "Reversed", bent to the right. Sneck refers to the square bend, a common hook style at the time these flies were tied. I'll email you a photo of original hook packages for reference.

[letumgo]

Thanks John. I received your email, and will share the hook photos tomorrow. I was too tired to do it tonight. I just to home from Dresden Germany (work trip). I should be sleeping already, but wanted to check out the forum briefly before catching some zzzzz's.

[DOUGSDEN]

John and Ray,
This thread is absolutely fantastic! John, thank you so very much for posting this great information and to the both of you for sharing the awesome pictures! Bill is right! This is history in the making! Please tell us that you have more flies and subjects to present to us in the near future!!
Very excited to see these pictures and read all about them,
Doug