Weighted soft hackles

[Mataura mayfly]

One of the best ways (in my opinion and mostly only mine) to get a light fly down to where trout are feeding is to use a "working" nymph or heavy fly, rather than split shot or weight to the initial fly and cast the both of them as a team.
It is very common to do over here, both with a dry floating indicator or the likes of a Mayfly bomb to get deep. Both methods you tie the smaller/lighter pattern off the bend of the front fly with a short section of tippet of as little as 6" and up to say 24".
Why? Because it gets a small fly deep in the water column fast and doubles your chances. If you are going to add a weight it may as well have a hook in it, same with an indicator. You will be surprised just how often a trout will rise to a yarn indicator- even if there is no surface insect activity. Heck I know guys that fish here from the States and add hooks to yarn indicators while fishing here.
The two nymph or nymph soft hackle rig can also be a visual aid. The larger nymph can stimulate the chase and draw attention to the smaller nymph trailing behind.

If your Pink Squirrel is working at the correct depth and is weighted, try tying one of your small spider patterns off the back by tying it to the bend of the Pink Squirrel. I fished this a lot for wild Brown Trout in Northern Ireland, the locals all gasped a bit- but were very quiet when I started out fishing their single gold beadhead Pheasant tails.

Some waters have regulation regarding more than one fly at a time, some even have rules regarding adding weight, so check the regulations before you go changing too much and stay within the law.

To me, using some form of weight up the leader a bit, be it tungsten putty- another fly or split shot, lets the trailing fly align in the water more naturally than a beadheaded single, mostly because I believe most nymphs rise headfirst whilst hatching and this is when trout like to eat them. True there are unfortunate nymphs that get dislodged and tumble along the bottom willy-nilly in all kinds of shapes and positions, but if you allow a fly to swing and lift, I believe it behaves more like a natural if the fly itself is unweighted.

However I do tie beadheads and lead wrapped soft hackles and nymphs! I also fish them. Usually as bottom bouncers in deep water where I do not want them to appear as hatching insects, or I am using them as the working fly as above.
You can experiment with the bead placement and tie it into the thorax area more than the head- thus giving a more even keel. You can even bury a small bead in the thorax and over wrap it with dubbing adding the weight, but not the visual illusion. Try some with the hackle behind the bead and tie some with the hackle in front. Hackle in front will help the hackle sit out from the body of the fly and not was back to cloak the abdomen if fishing across and down in reasonably fast water.
Different bead material will give you different visual effects and different weigh/sink rates. Plain brass, tungsten, plastic and glass beads all work. Play around and have some fun. The results will not be traditional spiders of the old world texts..... but I am guessing if the fish don't mind you will not either.

Now if you are not sick of reading yet...... toss all the above out the window and use a sink tip/sinking line or a sinking leader section. Good advice from Ray with the fluro carbon leaders and tippet- mono will float and is good for dries and film fishing, fluro is better for sinking patterns.
Some fishers use fullers earth to sink flies, or rub silt on the fly and leader. You can also get fly preparations that are deigned to sink your fly, same as the others designed to float it.
There are lots of ways to get your regular spider down to where the fish are. Part of the wonderful world of fly fishing is to discover all these things, take note of and use the ones you find useful and have a heck of a lot of fun doing it!

[kacbo]

...how can spiders/soft hackles still part their "magic" if tied with underwire or with a bead or tungsten head in quick and deeper waters?

taylor16,

soft hackle nymphs are flies that I never go fishing without! Some 80% or 90% of time they are at the tip of my line. I fish mostly hybrid type of stream (lime stone area, strong well, various flow, not so free stone, not so spring creek, a lot of pocket water). Almost all of them are sh nymphs tied with partridge hackle and dubbing based on hare. Fish them in sizes #8 to #16, mostly #10 to #14. All of them are bead heads with lead wire underbody. Just few of them are tungsten beads, because depth and speed of stream don't require that much density, nor that tiny flies (when tungsten is desirable).

It's pretty common nymph, widely known among anglers. For me, this nymphs can be regarded as variants and tweaks of Bird's Nest, derived in to Dirty Bird. Obviously, good pattern often got developed simultaneously by different people from different parts of the world. Name it that way or another, many anglers call this kind of flies a guide's fly. Easy to tie, effective to fish.

Traditional sh flies (spiders and flymphs) for me are solution for some delicate times when fish are pretty selective, feeding pretty intensively, usually under the film but far from bottom. Hence, I fish them as wet emergers (flymph is just another synonym for emerger, for me even better but not that wide spread as). Traditional (not weighted) soft hackles reqiure some skill to be very effective, but that's not magic! Though, they can do work magically.

For a begginer, soft hackled nymph under the indicator is a great way to step in to ff and to learn fast.

Light nymphs with just a bead under the hackle, like ones You have showed here, I'd like to fish in late summer and early autumn, with some egg laying bugs in mind.

Welcome to the club!

[DUBBN]

Kacbo, when you are using the weighted Soft Hackles, without an indicator, would you consider the method "Eastern Euro nymphing"? I use a similar short leader method when I fish small creeks or pocket water on larger creeks and smaller rivers. It is a method I taught myself over 30 years ago. However, and probably due to my habits, I prefer split shot to weighted nymphs/soft hackles/flymphs.

I have been reading about the Euro style of nymphing for many years. I am well aware of the great success that can be achieved when one masters the technique. I feel for my application, split shot is a more effecient way to fish deep. I can change placement of the shot above any of the three patterns that I am allowed to use, or I can tie a tippet off the last fly and place the shot directly below all three. If i dont crush the split shot down too hard I can easily remove it. There by, I can adjust weight quicker to the entire rig.

Like I said previous, the style you mentioned has too many followers, and some very talented fly fishing competitors that use the technique, for it not to be successful. I am picking at your brain here, not asking you to defend yourself.


Wayne

Oh, one other thing. The uniformity of the Soft Hackles in your picture is amazing. I envy your talent.

[Soft-hackle]

To add to the discussion--
I do not use beads on soft-hackles or flymphs, nor do I add weight to the leader. To me, this restricts the natural movement of the fly. Small amounts of lead wire in an under-body might be okay. Heavier hooks are preferred for getting deeper, and the addition of a wire rib often helps. A full sinking fly line, IMO, works much better and allows the fly to work more naturally and freely. A shorter leader also assists.

Mark

[Old Hat]

I missed this post before I answered a bit in your fly posting.

Soft hackle flies in the sense that we generally describe to here on this forum are really not meant to be weighted. As Kacbo stated these are generally fished with specific function in mind. The sparsely tied soft hackle was not meant for weight. Kacbo has also showed some fine examples of weighted nymphs. Although these use a "soft hackle" as opposed to "dry hackle" they serve a different purpose than what most would describe as a soft hackle fly in the family of flymphs, spiders etc. They carry a different thick full-bodied profile. These are nymphs and are fished as such. Nothing wrong with that at all. But it is good to understand that just taking a sparse spider and weighting it to get it deeper is defeating the purpose intended for that style of fly and most likely will not be as productive as others for the purpose of fishing deeper.

Some of the options I use.

1. Select a hook style and body material that promotes a quick sink. Think heavy hook and sparse thread body.
2. To go even deeper, fish in tandem with a heavy nymph. The ones Kacbo shows would be super.
3. Use a sinking line or leader.

I probably use #2 most often. But honestly, I don't use it that much because in those situations it is the nymph the usually takes the fish. So I just end up using that as a single fly.

[DUBBN]

Hope I make sense here. I am a tad out of it. Had three wisdoms pulled instead of one.

From left to right.

1.leader, 1st tippet and fly. Normally the split shot is added above the point fly about 8 to 10 inches above the point fly. If the shot is placed here, all flys will bounce and move freely below the weight.
2. 8 to 24 iches of tippet, 1st dropper fly. If split shot is placed between the first dropper and the point fly, the point fly will be fished on a tight line and anything below the split shot will move naturally.
3. 8 to 24 inches of tippet, and the second dropper. If the split shot is placed between the two droppers, the point fly and the first dropper will be fished on a tight line. The 2nd dropper will move naturally.
4. 8 to 12 inches of tippet tied to the bend of the 2nd dropper. Split shot added to the tippet. If this method is used, all three flys will be fished on a tight line.

It is my opinion that patterns fished on a tight line get fewer strikes from the fish. That being said, the strikes are easier to detect and the hook up rate is very high.

Patterns fish and are allowed to move naturally get more strikes from the fish, but because there is slack in the line more strikes go undetected, therefore the hook up rate decreases.

I believe it's a numbers game. What are the fish doing and how are they taking the offering? Are they hitting with aggression, or subtle little sips? Subtle sips may require a tight line approach, where aggressive takes may warrant free moving, natural presentations. Or, the other way around.

My use of split shot can be replaced with a weighted bead head. Simply decide if you want the weight at the top bottom or middle of your setup. I prefer the splitshot as I can move it around without having to retie a fly.

If I had rivers in my area where the current was consistent for a long distance, say hundreds of yards, I would use a sink tip line. When casting over two to 6 different currents I find the sink tip a liability. The large diameter of the line catches current too quickly in my opinion, and sweeps the flie's through the strike zone (drag). Most of my fishing is based on a floating line system. I do not enjoy changing out spools or reels while on the river. Again, I know people that are successful with sink tips. For me, they are not enjoyable.

I am being very serious here. These are only my opinions. I have no way of proving them. Even if I am completely wrong in my theory of what is happening, I doubt I will stray far from this technique. It has been very good to me for many years.

[kacbo]

Kacbo, when you are using the weighted Soft Hackles, without an indicator, would you consider the method "Eastern Euro nymphing"?

Wayne,

Eastern EU Nymphing is option, for sure. However, I prefer to see the take, not to feel it so nymphing under indicator (or without) is my choice when ever is suitable. Polish/Czech/Slovakian style of nympming for me means the way to lead nymph(s) just a little faster downstream than speed of current, so that you can maintain system tight and rely on a feel of takes, not necessary seeing takes. I usually choose to fish high stickin' style, up and/or across, in order to reduce amount of line on the water.

I usually fish one fly, be it nymph, wet or dry. That's just my thing, no big deal... Maybe I'd take tandem of nymph if I suspect that heavy (hence way too big) nymph isn't on the menu, so I trail it with some slender and small PTN Frank Sawyer style.

Split shot nymphing is OK, especially when nymphs are tiny. I prefer to put split shots on very short dropper in front of nymph.

Uniformity of nymphs shown above is questionable, without any fake modesty - that was one summer afternoon tie to fill the box; next morning I take 'em fishing.

[DUBBN]

Eastern EU Nymphing is option, for sure. However, I prefer to see the take, not to feel it so nymphing under indicator (or without) is my choice when ever is suitable. Polish/Czech/Slovakian style of nympming for me means the way to lead nymph(s) just a little faster downstream than speed of current, so that you can maintain system tight and rely on a feel of takes, not necessary seeing takes. I usually choose to fish high stickin' style, up and/or across, in order to reduce amount of line on the water.

I usually fish one fly, be it nymph, wet or dry. That's just my thing, no big deal... Maybe I'd take tandem of nymph if I suspect that heavy (hence way too big) nymph isn't on the menu, so I trail it with some slender and small PTN Frank Sawyer style.

Split shot nymphing is OK, especially when nymphs are tiny. I prefer to put split shots on very short dropper in front of nymph.

Uniformity of nymphs shown above is questionable, without any fake modesty - that was one summer afternoon tie to fill the box; next morning I take 'em fishing.

Thank you for the explanation on your technique. Very informative for me. No fake modesty on your part, just great looking patterns. Seeing them (your patterns) reminded me I needed a few Partridge and Hare. Not weighted, and certainly not in your league as far as talent. I was messing around with a different background as well.

[JohnP]

Nice flies and pics, Wayne. Kacbo's flies look a lot like possie buggers to me. Certainly a very effective pattern in these parts.

[kacbo]

Wayne, thank You for kind words. Obviously, skill is on Your side!
Partridge&peacock and partridge&tinsel are very familiar patterns! Great ties and photos, too...