Waterhen Bloa

[tie2fish]

Mike ~ Just curious ... what's your opinion of wing coverts from French partridge as a sub for waterhen? They seem to have that "brown dun" tint you speak of.

[tie2fish]

I agree 100% about not substituting materials on classic and proven patterns assuming that the original components are available. Real waterhen, however, is sometimes hard to come by, a scenario which -- I suspect -- is not only what initiated this thread, but also prompts most substitutions.

[Silver Doctor]

This pattern really appeals to me Hans. I love the Idea of the simplicity of the tie as far as materials go. Have a Muskrat skin that was taken by me in the sixties, when not many materials where available in shops. It has some very nice tips as the skin was from the fall and the guard hairs have nice tips. Must pull it our and experiment with some fur hackles.

[redietz]

One example of this is using mole to substitute for water rat. Some patterns are now listed with mole as the dubbing, when in fact water rat was originally used.

I'm not sure how true this is. Yes, Pritt said water rat in 1880, but Edmonds and Lee said said mole in 1916. Who's really to say that both weren't used all along? At the very least, mole has stood the test of time.

[redietz]

While I agree with everything you say (especially about the color of "olives") my question about "who's to say" wasn't entirely rhetorical. When we have two authors writing (within an order of magnitude) of 100 years ago, how do we know which one picked the more traditional dressing, or even that the waterhen bloa was originally to represent a large dark olive. Pritt says it represents a blue dun, but I don't know British entomology well enough to even know if these are the same bug. There seems to be general agreement that it's at it's best in March and April, which isn't surprising given it's color, but I'm seriously asking the questions "how do we know which insect it was originally tied to represent" and "how do we know whether water rat or mole was the more favored dressing 'back in the day' "? This is more scholarly than practical interest.

[redietz]

Thanks, Mike. I figured you would know if anyone did.

How does muskrat stack up against water rat?

[Ruard]

the waterhen bloa was originally to represent a large dark olive. Pritt says it represents a blue dun, but I don't know British entomology well enough to even know if these are the same bug.

Hi Redietz,

John Goddard in Trout Flies of Britain and Europe does not mention a blu dun as a bug. The large dark olive is a bug and here is a foto from that book:



Leslie Magee gives for the Large Dark Olive a Waterhen Bloa as the first imitation, the sixth is a Blue Blow ( Blue Dun).

So the the Blue dun is an artificial fly as is the Waterhen Bloa and both could be an imitation of the Large Dark Olive.

Greeting

[Hans Weilenmann]

*chuckle*

Mike,

Contrary to you, I am quite happy with Wingless Wets as a generic description to hackled wet/damp patterns. I do agree that the hackle suggests collapsed wings on the natural much more than any spindly legs, but I also I think any of the other options is likely to be more confusing (spider?) or restricted (softhackle?, flymph?)

So... let me turn the question back - what is your preferred term to cover the 'family'?

Cheers,
Hans W

[bbamboo]

Hi Mike

That’s an interesting comment regarding the waterhen bloa
So the question is are all North Country patterns supporting a dun hackle only taken as drowned duns?
Or are they taken for a number of no specific reasons.
Accepted as spinners, drowned duns, emergers and nymphs etc depending on how they are fishing and when they are fished. If the patterns were only excepted as drowned duns Mike would they be less effective in reality than what they are
And which ones if any represent nymphs?
Look forward to your reply.

Gary

[bbamboo]

Hi Mike

I agree most if not all the traditional patterns were devised as adult dun imitations.
After all why would anyone tie a spider with a blue dun hackle if not to represent the adult form in some way?
But I also think what we tie the flies to represent and what the fish actually take them for are two very different things.

If we take for example any of the North Country spider patterns conventionally wound with a game hackle.
To suggest that the flies are only representative of drowned duns also would imply that any other method of fishing other than dead drift techniques would not be effective.
Were in reality they are extremely effective by other means, form of manipulation, lifts or induced takes which are suggestive to sub surface nymph movements.
Taking all this into account what does the hackle represent is it legs or wings.

It not any easy question to answer.