UV, Purple and Orange
Moderators: William Anderson, letumgo
UV, Purple and Orange
The topic of UV, Purple and Orange has been quite the buzz on this forum as of late. It got me thinking. So far I have been told where and when Purple works. Why Orange works year round, and more about UV than I ever intended on learning.
I mulled over in my mind what exactly does a trout see? Then I remembered a quote from some other person. Perhaps it was an author. Heaven forbid it might have been a WORLD famous fly designer! Anyway to paraphrase he asked "what doesn't a trout see?".
Years and years ago on a river far far away, I made a discovery. It was on the San Juan River in Northern New Mexico. It's a Tail water famous for lots of fish, large fish, and tiny fly’s. My first trip to the river was really fun. Visibility was probably 3 feet. Sight fishing was the key. Size 20-24 Midge Larva, and PT nymphs were the ticket. 3 days of nonstop action. Fishing till you were exhausted, losing track of how many fish were landed, or until you wanted a beer. I am not bragging. The river was that good. Any flyfishing person with a little experience could catch 20 to 30 fish a day.
My second trip to the river was when I made my small discovery. I arrived at the river to find it looking like chocolate milk. My heart sunk. I had driven 4 hours just to have the river be unfishable. I stopped in at the FloatNFish fly shop. The owner, Ray Johnson use to race Quarter Horses against my dad. One of his guides (Kelly Dennington) was the nephew of my fishing buddy and friend. I had spent a half day the previous year fishing with Kelly.
As I entered the shop Ray said hi, and then said, "why the glum face?" With a pathetic smile I asked if he had seen the river. He said "yep, if it gets any better we are going to charge you double for your fishing license." I bet I looked weird when he said that. "Wayne, I know the river looks bad, but when you get down to it you will see there’s a good 6 to 8 inches visibility. I watched you fish last year. You can read water. Fish where you think the trout will be holding. Once you find em, you will slaughter em." I asked him if I needed big fly’s. He said nope, same fly’s as you use on the Frying Pan in your neck of the woods. "Really Ray, size 20 - 24?"
At that time I was allowed to use a 3 fly setup as long as the barbs were smashed down. Regulations today only allow a two fly set up. My first fly was a size 18 baetis nymph. Off that I dropped two thread midges. I don’t really remember the colors. I fished the North Channel just before it dumped into the Texas Hole. Lots of water and a variety of holes. I went to my favorite section. A run that is maybe 50 yards long and the rock stair steps gradually towards the main current. I wasn’t there long and I was into my first trout. It was the typical San Juan rainbow. 16 inches long, but fatter than last year. I have to admit, I scared myself a little when I set the hook. I still didn’t believe Ray. It had taken the Baetis nymph. As I was removing the hook I noticed midge larva coming out of the trout’s mouth. Light Yellow, and maybe a size 22. I clipped off the bottom fly and attached a size 22 Yong Special (Yellow). I was into fish. Ray was right. The fish were eating and the fishing was great, even in 8 inches of visibility. The color of midge larva changed throughout the day, but most fish would puke some of them out and let me know what color was predominant at that time. The colors of the larva fascinated me. Yellows. Oranges, Reds, Olives, Browns, Blacks, and the fish were gorged on them.
On the third day of that trip the water cleared to maybe 2 feet visibility. The fish still took the same fly’s at the same time of day, in the same locations. This trip was an eye opening experience for me. I had been raised with the preconceived idea that trout could not see in murky to muddy water. I had been proven wrong, in a very pleasant manner. Had I not stopped into talk to Ray, I would have left, driven North to Durango Colorado, and fished the Animas River. Kind of a cruddy consolation prize, and thankfully one I didn’t get.
So, does UV play a part? I have no idea. Why is Orange only important to me when the Giant Stones are making their appearance, or if there are scuds of that color present, or of the October Caddis are around? I guess it’s because those food items all have Orange in them. Why do I HATE HATE HATE Purple? Because my son and my buddy catch fish on Purple fly’s and I can’t!
I believe the trout see more than we give them credit for. I believe they will hit a UV enhanced pattern as readily as one that isn’t enhanced, and vice versa. Getting a pattern that is somewhat representative of what the trout is accustomed to eating, in a manner in which the trout is accustomed to seeing it, is more important than UV. I still wonder though,,,
Exactly what can’t a trout see?
These are only my opinions. I have no documentation or case study’s to prove a word of what I just said.
I mulled over in my mind what exactly does a trout see? Then I remembered a quote from some other person. Perhaps it was an author. Heaven forbid it might have been a WORLD famous fly designer! Anyway to paraphrase he asked "what doesn't a trout see?".
Years and years ago on a river far far away, I made a discovery. It was on the San Juan River in Northern New Mexico. It's a Tail water famous for lots of fish, large fish, and tiny fly’s. My first trip to the river was really fun. Visibility was probably 3 feet. Sight fishing was the key. Size 20-24 Midge Larva, and PT nymphs were the ticket. 3 days of nonstop action. Fishing till you were exhausted, losing track of how many fish were landed, or until you wanted a beer. I am not bragging. The river was that good. Any flyfishing person with a little experience could catch 20 to 30 fish a day.
My second trip to the river was when I made my small discovery. I arrived at the river to find it looking like chocolate milk. My heart sunk. I had driven 4 hours just to have the river be unfishable. I stopped in at the FloatNFish fly shop. The owner, Ray Johnson use to race Quarter Horses against my dad. One of his guides (Kelly Dennington) was the nephew of my fishing buddy and friend. I had spent a half day the previous year fishing with Kelly.
As I entered the shop Ray said hi, and then said, "why the glum face?" With a pathetic smile I asked if he had seen the river. He said "yep, if it gets any better we are going to charge you double for your fishing license." I bet I looked weird when he said that. "Wayne, I know the river looks bad, but when you get down to it you will see there’s a good 6 to 8 inches visibility. I watched you fish last year. You can read water. Fish where you think the trout will be holding. Once you find em, you will slaughter em." I asked him if I needed big fly’s. He said nope, same fly’s as you use on the Frying Pan in your neck of the woods. "Really Ray, size 20 - 24?"
At that time I was allowed to use a 3 fly setup as long as the barbs were smashed down. Regulations today only allow a two fly set up. My first fly was a size 18 baetis nymph. Off that I dropped two thread midges. I don’t really remember the colors. I fished the North Channel just before it dumped into the Texas Hole. Lots of water and a variety of holes. I went to my favorite section. A run that is maybe 50 yards long and the rock stair steps gradually towards the main current. I wasn’t there long and I was into my first trout. It was the typical San Juan rainbow. 16 inches long, but fatter than last year. I have to admit, I scared myself a little when I set the hook. I still didn’t believe Ray. It had taken the Baetis nymph. As I was removing the hook I noticed midge larva coming out of the trout’s mouth. Light Yellow, and maybe a size 22. I clipped off the bottom fly and attached a size 22 Yong Special (Yellow). I was into fish. Ray was right. The fish were eating and the fishing was great, even in 8 inches of visibility. The color of midge larva changed throughout the day, but most fish would puke some of them out and let me know what color was predominant at that time. The colors of the larva fascinated me. Yellows. Oranges, Reds, Olives, Browns, Blacks, and the fish were gorged on them.
On the third day of that trip the water cleared to maybe 2 feet visibility. The fish still took the same fly’s at the same time of day, in the same locations. This trip was an eye opening experience for me. I had been raised with the preconceived idea that trout could not see in murky to muddy water. I had been proven wrong, in a very pleasant manner. Had I not stopped into talk to Ray, I would have left, driven North to Durango Colorado, and fished the Animas River. Kind of a cruddy consolation prize, and thankfully one I didn’t get.
So, does UV play a part? I have no idea. Why is Orange only important to me when the Giant Stones are making their appearance, or if there are scuds of that color present, or of the October Caddis are around? I guess it’s because those food items all have Orange in them. Why do I HATE HATE HATE Purple? Because my son and my buddy catch fish on Purple fly’s and I can’t!
I believe the trout see more than we give them credit for. I believe they will hit a UV enhanced pattern as readily as one that isn’t enhanced, and vice versa. Getting a pattern that is somewhat representative of what the trout is accustomed to eating, in a manner in which the trout is accustomed to seeing it, is more important than UV. I still wonder though,,,
Exactly what can’t a trout see?
These are only my opinions. I have no documentation or case study’s to prove a word of what I just said.
- letumgo
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Re: UV, Purple and Orange
Great read, Wayne.
Ray (letumgo)----<°))))))><
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"The world is perfect. Appreciate the details." - Dean
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"The world is perfect. Appreciate the details." - Dean
Re: UV, Purple and Orange
Excellent...
Re: UV, Purple and Orange
So no book Wayne, thats disappointing. Nice story and a good lesson.DUBBN wrote:
These are only my opinions. I have no documentation or case study’s to prove a word of what I just said.
- William Anderson
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Re: UV, Purple and Orange
Nice post, Wayne. I'm reading all the UV materials as you are with a distant interst. The discussion is fascinating but often too clouded to advance real application. I'll continue to read and would be interested in some experiements, but not without more balanced variables and tolerant, open minded approaches that exemplify the spirit of this forum. Anything less illustrates a standard lower than is acceptable here.
Thanks very much for your post.
w
Thanks very much for your post.
w
"A man should not try to eliminate his complexes, but rather come into accord with them. They are ultimately what directs his conduct in the world." Sigmund Freud.
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Re: UV, Purple and Orange
UV reflective material is everywhere, not only those that are marked and promoted as such. Chances are your favorite patterns you use are already uv reflective, in the proper purportions. On the flip side some products that are "UV enhanced" and promoted as uv material can make flies more effective, if used properly. How it is implimented on the fly is the same trial and error that is the same for any material used. The whole UV 'thing" is not rocket science as far as understanding the application possibilities. It's really quite simple.
Jim
Jim
Re: UV, Purple and Orange
Folks, I wrote this account because for ME, and only ME it showed ME that fish see ALOT. More than I had previously realized. I did not write it to discredit any member of this forum, or even disagree with them. My opinion is, that in the grand sheme of flyfishing, UV plays an insignificant part of MY approach to catching fish.
If you were to tell me that a trouts lateral line played a bigger part in it's capturing food than the use of UV vision. I would say, "great, still doesnt put fisn in my hand. I'm still not going to attatch a rattle to my flys."
I do not have a dog in the UV fight. I am not promoting a book, a pattern, or trying to sell UV products. I am just enjoying tying and fishing Soft Hackle patterns.
Lets be civil to one another. We have a great forum here that gets alot of activity with a relatively small member base. Must be something in those Flymphs that keep us chatting about them.
Again, just my opinions.
If you were to tell me that a trouts lateral line played a bigger part in it's capturing food than the use of UV vision. I would say, "great, still doesnt put fisn in my hand. I'm still not going to attatch a rattle to my flys."
I do not have a dog in the UV fight. I am not promoting a book, a pattern, or trying to sell UV products. I am just enjoying tying and fishing Soft Hackle patterns.
Lets be civil to one another. We have a great forum here that gets alot of activity with a relatively small member base. Must be something in those Flymphs that keep us chatting about them.
Again, just my opinions.
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Re: UV, Purple and Orange
Hi Dubbin,
I respect your approach. I can totally understand your position and here is how I can relate. I fish nymphs without and indicator, I figure that if I can't see or feel the take then so be it. This also goes for fishing the hopper dropper set up. I honestly don't care for the technique but I think it's more the fact that I don't want to know how many fish I may have been missing taking my fly without knowing it.
My curiosity with UV is that it helps with material selection and creating flies. No more no less. 99% of the materials I have been using for years because they were fish getters and now know that they are uv reflective.
Jim
I respect your approach. I can totally understand your position and here is how I can relate. I fish nymphs without and indicator, I figure that if I can't see or feel the take then so be it. This also goes for fishing the hopper dropper set up. I honestly don't care for the technique but I think it's more the fact that I don't want to know how many fish I may have been missing taking my fly without knowing it.
My curiosity with UV is that it helps with material selection and creating flies. No more no less. 99% of the materials I have been using for years because they were fish getters and now know that they are uv reflective.
Jim
Re: UV, Purple and Orange
Jim, I have been fishing (nymph) without an indicator for 30 years. I just took the bobber up 5 years ago. This is a subject I enjoy.
- William Anderson
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Re: UV, Purple and Orange
A short list would be helpful. It may seem obvious, but I've asked several times for someone who knows to be specific.Jim Slattery wrote: My curiosity with UV is that it helps with material selection and creating flies. No more no less. 99% of the materials I have been using for years because they were fish getters and now know that they are uv reflective.
Jim
w
"A man should not try to eliminate his complexes, but rather come into accord with them. They are ultimately what directs his conduct in the world." Sigmund Freud.
www.WilliamsFavorite.com
www.WilliamsFavorite.com