@Reed
Understood Your words. What I was trying to wrote as (1) was that effect of colored water to the light shows earlier/shallower to us, than effect of water absorbing different light shows up, but because water are almost always colored.
The Color Orange
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overmywaders
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:30 am
Re: The Color Orange
flyfishwithme,
Ah, the delights of peat bogs!
Yes, the colors would be different in tannin colored waters. However, since tannin staining provides many different water colors, no-one can make exact statements about the final fly colors. Suffice to say that your colored waters provide three different methods of determining the wavelengths which are transmitted to the trout, from those that are "lost in transit". First is the depth/distance* aspect - red light drops off first. Second is the scattering - your waters probably contain small particles from the peat in suspension. Third is the colored filter that the tannin stain provides. Sorry, I can't answer your question, there are just too many variables.
Use black
Best regards,
Reed
* water depth and distance under water give the same result. For example, if Red is gone by three feet down due to water conditions, then Red would also be lost to a trout looking at something Red three feet away in that water, even if the fly was only six inches below the surface.
Ah, the delights of peat bogs!
Yes, the colors would be different in tannin colored waters. However, since tannin staining provides many different water colors, no-one can make exact statements about the final fly colors. Suffice to say that your colored waters provide three different methods of determining the wavelengths which are transmitted to the trout, from those that are "lost in transit". First is the depth/distance* aspect - red light drops off first. Second is the scattering - your waters probably contain small particles from the peat in suspension. Third is the colored filter that the tannin stain provides. Sorry, I can't answer your question, there are just too many variables.
Use black
Best regards,
Reed
* water depth and distance under water give the same result. For example, if Red is gone by three feet down due to water conditions, then Red would also be lost to a trout looking at something Red three feet away in that water, even if the fly was only six inches below the surface.
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overmywaders
- Posts: 91
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Re: The Color Orange
Jim,
I have never read Skues. I don't know why, perhaps the name reminded me of Skua, which as a species are largely kleptoparasites. Perhaps it was seeing photos of him. Maybe because I have never purposely fished with nymphs; a mode of fishing that requires much practice, and often use of weight on flies or line. I don't know.
I think UV answers a lot of questions, but such speculation is not popular on this forum. Not that I am intimidated, just that life too short for unnecessary brouhahas.
Best regards,
Reed
I have never read Skues. I don't know why, perhaps the name reminded me of Skua, which as a species are largely kleptoparasites. Perhaps it was seeing photos of him. Maybe because I have never purposely fished with nymphs; a mode of fishing that requires much practice, and often use of weight on flies or line. I don't know.
I think UV answers a lot of questions, but such speculation is not popular on this forum. Not that I am intimidated, just that life too short for unnecessary brouhahas.
Best regards,
Reed
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flyfishwithme
Re: The Color Orange
Oh come on Reed,overmywaders wrote:Jim,
I have never read Skues. I don't know why, perhaps the name reminded me of Skua, which as a species are largely kleptoparasites. Perhaps it was seeing photos of him. Maybe because I have never purposely fished with nymphs; a mode of fishing that requires much practice, and often use of weight on flies or line. I don't know.
I think UV answers a lot of questions, but such speculation is not popular on this forum. Not that I am intimidated, just that life too short for unnecessary brouhahas.
Best regards,
Reed
In for a penny in for a pound. Any, this forum is much more intelligent and accepting of information than others.
Re: The Color Orange
Reed ~ I can't speak for others, but even though a considerable amount of your technical information regarding light and color is beyond my ken, I still find your explanations and suppositions interesting to read. So, please continue to pass on pertinent aspects of your specialized knowledge whenever you feel it will benefit forum readers. Without trying sound like a wise guy, I'd like to suggest that providing a terminology definition now and then when you are using specific scientific terms might help some of us better understand what you are explaining. Just sayin ...
Some of the same morons who throw their trash around in National parks also vote. That alone would explain the state of American politics. ~ John Gierach, "Still Life with Brook Trout"
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overmywaders
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:30 am
Re: The Color Orange
tie2fish,
Thanks for the advice, I will try to always provide definitions when using technical terms in the future; that certainly aids in communication.
Again, thanks,
Reed
Thanks for the advice, I will try to always provide definitions when using technical terms in the future; that certainly aids in communication.
Again, thanks,
Reed
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DUBBN
Re: The Color Orange
Reed, I hope you will continue to post about UV. It is something you are very passionate about, and I enjoy reading about it. That being said, I havent noticed where UV material has helped me one ioda. It hasnt hurt, but in my opinion, it hasnt been all that great either.
Twenty years ago, I would not give you 2cents for the Partridge and Peacock pattern. Today it was my favorite pattern. In a nut shell, if we become too set in our ways to listen, and learn, then we truelly have become grumpy old men, and women .
Keep up the good work,
Wayne
Twenty years ago, I would not give you 2cents for the Partridge and Peacock pattern. Today it was my favorite pattern. In a nut shell, if we become too set in our ways to listen, and learn, then we truelly have become grumpy old men, and women .
Keep up the good work,
Wayne
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Jim Slattery
- Site Admin
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- Location: West Yellowstone, Montana
- Contact:
Re: The Color Orange
Hi Reed,
I would think you would enjoy Skues. He fished his nymphs to rising fish, or at least fish in the upper zone. He was not much on weighted flies or weight. I think you would be very interested in his thoughts on trout eyesight.
Jim
I would think you would enjoy Skues. He fished his nymphs to rising fish, or at least fish in the upper zone. He was not much on weighted flies or weight. I think you would be very interested in his thoughts on trout eyesight.
Jim
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overmywaders
- Posts: 91
- Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2012 7:30 am
UV
Okay, I'll give it a try. Jim, when you think of some Skue questions, let me know.
All fly tying material is UV material. This is true because everything you put on a hook reflects ultraviolet light - some a little, some a lot.*
To illustrate:
The Partridge and Peacock(P&P) is a great fly. Why? Well, the iridescence of the peacock herl and its broken outline closely resemble the hairy iridescence of the chitin layers of many insects. [Chitin is the material which composes the outer skeleton of insects. It can be grown in many thin layers and often these have been grown to refract - bend - light in patterns according to species. This layering can produce iridescence.]
In bright daylight the P&P performs quite well - outperforming the Brown Hackle which is often over-dressed - but in shade and at sunrise and sunset it is a real winner. IMO, this is because under these conditions the ultraviolet reflection dominates the visible light. The background of the surrounding water, from the trout's viewpoint, is a bright UV haze. The peacock herl absorbs almost all of the UV striking it, so it appears black against the bright background; while the white bars of the partridge hackle reflect most of the UV, so they appear as bright bars surrounding the fly. A very tantalizing morsel, IMO. [Note: I took UV photos of these materials, so I know these matters to be true.]
As for the color Orange in the UV - each type of floss will have a different UV reflectivity, some highly reflective, some minimally.
Regards,
Reed
*Items sold as UV are typically fluorescent. This means that they absorb a few photons of UV wavelengths and convert them into a single immediate emission of visible light. That is not UV light that you are seeing.
All fly tying material is UV material. This is true because everything you put on a hook reflects ultraviolet light - some a little, some a lot.*
To illustrate:
The Partridge and Peacock(P&P) is a great fly. Why? Well, the iridescence of the peacock herl and its broken outline closely resemble the hairy iridescence of the chitin layers of many insects. [Chitin is the material which composes the outer skeleton of insects. It can be grown in many thin layers and often these have been grown to refract - bend - light in patterns according to species. This layering can produce iridescence.]
In bright daylight the P&P performs quite well - outperforming the Brown Hackle which is often over-dressed - but in shade and at sunrise and sunset it is a real winner. IMO, this is because under these conditions the ultraviolet reflection dominates the visible light. The background of the surrounding water, from the trout's viewpoint, is a bright UV haze. The peacock herl absorbs almost all of the UV striking it, so it appears black against the bright background; while the white bars of the partridge hackle reflect most of the UV, so they appear as bright bars surrounding the fly. A very tantalizing morsel, IMO. [Note: I took UV photos of these materials, so I know these matters to be true.]
As for the color Orange in the UV - each type of floss will have a different UV reflectivity, some highly reflective, some minimally.
Regards,
Reed
*Items sold as UV are typically fluorescent. This means that they absorb a few photons of UV wavelengths and convert them into a single immediate emission of visible light. That is not UV light that you are seeing.
Re: The Color Orange
Hi All;
Fascinating discussion, it really requires several reads to sort through all the information so far but, it's been worth it.
Do you think there's much difference in the type of material that we use that's orange on our pattterns? In other words silk both waxed and unwaxed, polester thread, cotton,rayon, uv dubbing etc?
One thing I've noticed but have yet to put it to the test is that Pearsalls and YLI orange silk are not quite the same, the shade is a little different, Pearsalls appears shinier on the hook but, once both are waxed, they appear identical to my eye.
Wayneb
Fascinating discussion, it really requires several reads to sort through all the information so far but, it's been worth it.
Do you think there's much difference in the type of material that we use that's orange on our pattterns? In other words silk both waxed and unwaxed, polester thread, cotton,rayon, uv dubbing etc?
One thing I've noticed but have yet to put it to the test is that Pearsalls and YLI orange silk are not quite the same, the shade is a little different, Pearsalls appears shinier on the hook but, once both are waxed, they appear identical to my eye.
Wayneb