Perception

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overmywaders
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Perception

Post by overmywaders » Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:39 am

Below are some ideas that I committed to paper. I share them freely here not because I think that they represent "the only answer", nor because I wish to defend or dispute the theories, but simply to offer them up for others to consider. Perhaps through honest discussion we can improve or disprove the theories. If you feel that the matter below is so entirely wrong as to insult your intelligence; you are welcome to ignore this thread. This is all speculation. While some of it is based upon good science, some merely on logic, none of it is has been proven beyond a doubt. It is said that "Perception is everything"; below is one possibility of what that may mean to a trout.

When Maybe is Good Enough
Any trout fisherman, especially those who fish with dry flies, will tell you that trout possess acute vision. Scientists will agree. How is it then that a large brown trout will see this –
Image
[Margin note: Photo from Streamside Guide to Naturals and their Imitations by Art Flick]
And accept it as this
Image
[Margin note: Photo from Streamside Guide to Naturals and their Imitations by Art Flick]
The answer lies not with the trout’s vision, but with his perception; that is, how the trout’s brain registers the sensory input of vision and matches it to an established pattern. As fly fishermen we have for centuries looked at the thick hackle of a standard upright dry fly and assumed that the trout sees the hundreds of light points breaking the surface as the six legs of a mayfly. That astounds me! A fish with such fine vision will see all the hundreds of those discrete hackle points. However, while the trout can see the difference between six sparkling points and hundreds, the trout can’t discern or perceive the difference.
Vision is the portal for raw sensory information. That information is so complete, and flowing at such a rate, as to be overwhelming. No animal could survive if each day it had to relearn, moment-by-moment that certain images represented danger and others, food.

So, cognitive systems, both machine and organic, use pattern-matching. “Pattern-matching” is the act of checking for the presence of all the elements of a given pattern. As humans we unconsciously learn pattern-matching at an early age. Since we humans serve as both predator and prey, our brains need to be able to alert us to danger, or food, quickly. This cannot be a conscious process as that would be far too slow; thus, the pattern-matching. When my vision sends images of, for example, a three-legged chair, to the brain, the brain temporarily records the input, while trying to create an object from all the associated parts. This becomes the gestalt - an organized whole that is perceived as a whole - rather than a collection of discrete elements.

Having established a gestalt, an apprehension of an object, the brain must now match it against familiar patterns that indicate danger, in order to send a fight or flight warning. The chair is quickly noted as not matching the shape of a known threat, nor as food. The brain next performs a lower level of mapping which covers more databases as it were. [Margin note: It is known that humans have a database for tools and common objects - the first database that starts to fail us with age. Sigh.] Eventually – in real time it may be thousandths of a second - the object is perceived as a chair. Important note, it is perceived as a chair, it is not seen as a chair.
The trouts, fellow predator and prey species with humans, also use pattern-matching for quick identification of danger and food. This mechanism has been proven to be active in other fish [12] as well as many insects.

As the Quill Gordon floats within the trout’s range of vision – and here I am going to avoid the complex issues of Snel’s Circle, reflection, and refraction and simply assume that the visual sensory input is very detailed and complete – the trout’s brain receives input of the fly exactly as it appears from below, in the full trout spectrum, VIS and UVR. The trout brain now gathers the elements that are attached to each other – hackle, body, wings, tail - ignoring floating particles of foam nearby, and assumes that it forms a whole unit. Against this gestalt the trout brain uses pattern-matching, just as we would. The order of conditions is presumably the same:
• First, check for danger. [13] Is the object a known threat? “No.”

• Next, check for food. Is the object a food item? “Yes”, “No”, or “Maybe”.

And that is the crux of it. If as anglers we can establish “Maybe” we have won the first part of the game. “Maybe” can indicate insufficient information which may lead to further investigation through other trout senses - Taste and Touch. In order for the fish to touch and taste, he takes an object in his mouth, hands being in short supply. This is why we set the hook on a rise, for we know that the trout will reject our fly as soon as it fails the taste/touch test. In short, we have not fooled any of the trout’s senses; we have, however, baffled the visual pattern-matching. And if that trout is released or gets free, it has a new template to add to the database of known dangers – a #14 Quill Gordon.

As fly fishermen we learn that during a steady hatch of flies, trout will not take every natural fly that drifts within reach. Some they may follow before taking, others they ignore altogether. This is because the food is flowing in such abundance that the trout can afford to take those that match most accurately one particular pattern.
One instance of this would be when two hatches are occurring simultaneously, a small mayfly and a large mayfly. If the small mayfly started hatching first, the trout would already have established a perceptual pattern-matching that worked for that fly. Therefore, and perhaps we have all seen this, the trout continue to take the small flies and ignore the larger flies. As humans this seems illogical, there is a greater reward of protein and fat in the larger flies for the same amount of effort. Sipping the smaller flies is inefficient. However, let’s look at it from the perspective of a fellow predator/prey species - the safe known is always preferred to the unknown.

Suppose I walk outside my cave, club in hand, eager for food and see a small rabbit, whose cousins I have eaten many times. At the same moment, I see nearby a much larger animal that is unknown to me. I do not know the larger animal as a threat, but neither do I know it as food, it might be poisonous to eat. If I throw my club at the larger animal and do not kill it, it might kill me. On the other hand, the rabbit is delicious and not dangerous. Decision made; accept the known pattern. [If you are reading this it is probably because your ancestors made the safe choice and enjoyed hasenpfeffer that night. - OMW]

In case any reader thinks the previous paragraphs have been attributing some form of logical thinking to trout - clever little beasties - that is not the case. Cleverness and rational thinking are not synonymous; a moment’s observation of CSPAN proves this. To be clever is to be “adept at seizing” from which the word is derived. A trout that is not adept at seizing food when it presents itself is a very thin trout.

Pattern-matching is not a conscious thought process. It is a simple, spontaneous, database query, or series of queries, of which the trout – or man – is largely unaware. For example, when you see the word “food” you are pattern-matching. Your vision provides the input of the separate symbols of the letters, but your perception of the letters is a pattern. This required no conscious thought from you. You did not consciously decide to understand the discrete symbols (letters) as a single pattern, in fact you had no control over it. Further, you would have perceived the same matched pattern in many different fonts, despite the visual dissimilarities. You will use the same pattern for FOOD Food Food Food Food and Food.

For the trout, the outcome or result of the pattern-matching is a “Yes”, “No”, or “Maybe” that provokes action. “Yes” has the trout take the fly, “No” has the trout reject the fly, and “Maybe” provides different responses for each fish or species. A brook trout, which as a species are opportunistic feeders, will probably respond to “Maybe” by taking the fly in its mouth for further testing. Some large brown and rainbow trout on a quiet stream might drift behind the fly for some time, for more visual sensory input on a “Maybe”; while other trout in faster water might immediately perform the taste/touch test.

Now let us speculate about the elements or parts of a pattern that would be essential to the trout in order for the fish to perceive a floating mayfly as potential food. This would be the trout’s pattern – the term “template” is also apt - of a mayfly, without which the fish could not safely feed. The trout’s gestalt would be the complete image of the floating object as received from the senses. The pattern-matching would be application of the gestalt against one or more patterns.

What works in our favor is that the patterns that the trout have for mayflies, caddis flies, etc. are necessarily vague. In order to understand how complex pattern-matching is for the trout, we can observe the stream after a hatch of mayflies. Some of the flies we see will have no wings emerging, they are still stuck in the nymphal case; others will have broken or bent wings; some will have malformed wings; some will be tipped on their sides; some will be floating drowned; and some will be spinners with wings outstretched. The trout’s pattern for mayfly wings, therefore, must be quite vague, perhaps simply a small extension from the body, light in color and displaying a touch of UVR. A trout that only eats mayflies with perfectly formed wings is missing a lot of food. The same applies to tails. A mayfly may have either two or three tails. That is the perfect insect under perfect conditions. However, to optimize feeding opportunities and still retain a measure of safety, the trout brain probably reduces mayfly tails to the lowest common denominator of one bent blur.

Let’s look at an example and see how generalized it might be. Here is a view of a mayfly from beneath set in grayscale. I used grayscale because any master pattern for mayflies in general must accommodate many colors.
Image
Now, we can’t have that many legs or tails as these may be missing so we generalize a bit more by removing two tails and all legs.
Image
However, as the segmentation of the body is still clear, we need to blur things a bit in order to allow for differing lengths of segments.
Image

That is pretty general. It would even match very well the gestalt of a No-Hackle pattern as seen from below. However, the above, besides being pure speculation, represents just one of hundreds of patterns a trout would have for a generic mayfly. Why hundreds of patterns for a generic fly? Because the fly could be viewed from hundreds of angles – front-on, directly underneath but tipped to one side or another, end-on, etc. Below is a directly side-on, or a mayfly lying on its side on the water. I have removed the legs and reduced the tails from three to one.
Image
Now I need to generalize it to allow for crumpled wings, broken tails, and differing lengths of segments.
Image

The trout’s internal mayfly patterns/templates allow us, through their necessary vagueness, a measure of freedom. But we still need to ask ourselves, “What elements of a natural fly are absolutely essential for the trout brain to use in pattern-matching?”

In the following list of possible mayfly pattern elements we are assuming that no hatch is occurring and the fly is drifting freely; therefore, matching a given fly size and color is not a consideration.
1. Body - The visual sensation should indicate a body, as that is pronounced in a mayfly and provides the greatest caloric offering.
2. Wings – These might or might not exist depending on the state of the emergence, how the fly is aligned, malformed wings, etc. A short post in moderate to high UVR would probably provide enough.
3. Outline - The mayfly outline both from below and from the side is widest near the front, in the thorax. From there it tapers to the tails. An artificial with hackle fore and aft, like the Buzz Hackle, would not present this piece of the pattern. The average twig doesn’t, either.
4. Translucence - Many mayfly duns and spinners have translucent bodies.
5. Color - There is no one color that fits as a pattern element; however, there are certainly colors that do not fit, blaze orange for instance.
6. UVR - Some UVR should be expected from any of the mayflies, however the entire fly would not give a consistent UVR. A twig, on the other hand, might give a consistent UVR.
7. Texture – The surface of the mayfly will not be perfectly smooth.
8. Action – Only certain movements would conform to the trout’s pattern of most mayfly duns and spinners. In most cases no motion, other than that produced by wind and current, would be correct. Caddis flies would differ, of course.

There are doubtless other elements to a large trout’s general mayfly pattern-matching. Each trout would have a unique set of patterns, built through its lifetime exposure to natural mayflies. It is entirely likely that some essential patterns of food sources are passed through genetics as well. After all, trout fry have no parent present to instruct them on the edibility of plankton, nor to transition them to insects when plankton no longer satisfies.

As a hatch is progressing, it is likely that the trout is modifying its base pattern to include the parameters of size and color. The new pattern, through its greater number of elements, increases feeding safety and speed. Thus the trout sips only the small sulphurs which have no trailing shuck while ignoring the larger flies that are hatching simultaneously.

The gestalt of the floating fly is going to differ moment-by-moment. Imagine the number of possible views of the fly as it is drifting on the current, perhaps side-on, or spinning slowly in an eddy; and the complexity of the instantaneous pattern-matching required by the trout’s brain becomes awe-inspiring. For example, look at your left hand held flat in front of you – you immediately recognize it as a hand. Now, rotate it slowly and observe the different perspectives. In each degree of rotation on each axis the hand has a different appearance; yet your brain still recognizes it as a hand. The trout is going through the same process every time it observes a potential food item above it. As the floating fly turns, a new gestalt is formed and the trout’s brain must apply a fresh pattern against the new gestalt. An utterly unconscious act, yet absolutely amazing!

Remember - all that trout’s superb vision simply builds a database query. If the query doesn’t return a “Yes”, a “Maybe” may be just as good.
-------------
Reed F. Curry
Overmywaders
The Contemplative Angler
Mike Connor

Re: Perception

Post by Mike Connor » Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:49 am

Seems reasonable enough and I would agree with some of it. I think there are some semantics problems involved, but this is quite normal in this type of speculation. I don't think trout have "databases" as such, for various reasons, and I think that you have to see vision as a total concept. Somebody may have perfectly good eyes and be blind because no information reaches his brain. Somebody else may have problems because he is colour-blind, etc.

So saying that trout have good vision but poor perception is a problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_perception

Pattern matching in the form described has to be learned and is a higher brain function which trout do not possess. In order to match the pattern FOOD to anything you first have to learn the symbols involved in order to be able to interpret the pattern at all, ( if you can't read then you can not match the pattern at all ). I don't think trout can learn anything like this.

TL
MC
Mike Connor

Re: Perception

Post by Mike Connor » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:05 am

Another point is that feeding on a lot of things is not a "reaction controlled" activity in fish. It is part of their normal instinctive behaviour, and anything that provokes a "reaction" as such, from the fish is almost certain to be negative. This is excepting movement which can cause a fish to react very positively.

Obviously there are severe problems when trying to interpret fish perceptions. I don't think it is really much use when designing flies. What you need to do there is concentrate on making an imitation which the fish simply takes as it would a natural.

TL
MC
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Re: Perception

Post by Old Hat » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:23 am

Quite a good read, Reed. I enjoyed it and it is a plausible and clearly written hypothesis.

I think Hidy said much the same thing when he emphasized the idea of "mimicry" as a major component of a flymph's success. This Is always how I interpreted the idea of mimicry anyway without really thinking of the processes a trout may or may not go through. Experience on the water tells me that generalistic patterning in a fly works well enough to make my outings pleasurable.
Last edited by Old Hat on Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:30 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Mike Connor

Re: Perception

Post by Mike Connor » Mon Mar 19, 2012 11:25 am

One further point is that reactions to danger signals are instinctive and reflexive. The reaction occurs before any signals reach the brain. This is even more important for a fish because of the dangerous environment it occupies. Panic is also an instinctive reflex reaction to a danger signal. No brain activity is required at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflex

TL
MC
overmywaders
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Re: Perception

Post by overmywaders » Mon Mar 19, 2012 12:35 pm

I don't wish to interfere with what I hope will be an animated discussion among members of the forum; however, as regards the trainability - not intelligence or educability - of trout, there has been some fascinating work in recent years.

See http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/ ... 3.full.pdf for the training of minnows to detect predators, and its extension to trout here http://www.mendeley.com/research/predat ... e-studies/.
-------------
Reed F. Curry
Overmywaders
The Contemplative Angler
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Re: Perception

Post by hankaye » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:21 am

Howdy All;

I know, I 'm beginning to seem like a terrier that won't let go.

Perception, or how we see things....... we do it in the gasious enviornment
of the atmosphere. Meanwhile, Mr. Trout or Bass, or Panfish are more inclined to
do most or all of their perceptive efforts while submerged. are the studies done in a
like environment ?? Compleate with the normal crud floating around.

My couriosity abounds ......

hank
Striving for a less complicated life since 1949...
"Every day I beat my own previous record for number
of consecutive days I've stayed alive." George Carlin
Mike Connor

Re: Perception

Post by Mike Connor » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:43 am

Hi Hank,

one has to differentiate between an experiment and a study. There are procedures for setting up experiments and studies. Any results obtained have to be very carefully related to the conditions under which they were obtained. The reason for an experiment, the set-up and procedure, all have to be carefully documented. The whole thing is then submitted for peer review. If nobody protests or finds any faults, such things may be generally accepted.

Experiments are usually set up to try and find whatever one is looking for while removing any extraneous factors. So you have to look at the description of the experiment in order to find out under what conditions it was carried out.

The links posted by Mr.Curry are a good example of this;

QUOTE

See http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/ ... 3.full.pdf for the training of minnows to detect predators, and its extension to trout here http://www.mendeley.com/research/predat ... e-studies/.
UNQUOTE

What they were looking for, what they used and how they did it are all carefully explained. Here is a short extract from the study;

QUOTE

(d) Experimental procedure
(i) Conditioning phase
Twenty-four hours prior to being conditioned, groups of
three fathead minnows were placed in 37 l tanks (50 ! 25 !
30 cm) containing 30 l of dechlorinated tap water and a gravel
substrate. The tanks were also equipped with an air stone to
which was attached a 2 m long piece of tubing used to inject
the stimuli into the tanks. Minnows were fed after being
transferred and also 1 h prior to being conditioned the next
day. Prior to injecting the stimuli in the tank, we withdrew
and discarded 60 ml of water from the injection tubes to
remove any stagnant water, and an additional 60 ml of water
were withdrawn and retained to flush the stimuli into the
tank. The conditioning consisted of injecting sequentially
5 ml of either alarm cues or dechlorinated tap water and
20 ml of lake trout odour, followed by 60 ml of the retained
tank water. On each conditioning day, half the tanks received
the alarm cue treatment and the other half the water
treatment, and the treatments were randomly assigned to
the conditioning tanks within the experimental room. At least
1 h after being conditioned, the groups of three minnows were
randomly transferred to identical 37 l tanks (used for testing)
containing clean dechlorinated tap water and were fed.

(ii) Testing phase
The testing phase took place 24 h after the conditioning
phase. Minnows were fed 1 h prior to being tested. During
this phase, groups of minnows were randomly exposed to
20 ml of the odour of either lake trout, brook trout, rainbow
trout, pike or sucker, and their behaviour was recorded. The
protocol for the stimulus injection followed the same protocol
as used in the conditioning phase.

(iii) Behavioural assay
The behaviour of the group of minnows was recorded for
8 min preceding the stimulus injection to obtain the baseline
level of the minnow’s activity and for 8 min immediately
following the injection of the stimulus. The difference in
activity between the pre- and post-stimulus injection periods
represents the change in activity resulting from the stimulus
injection. We used a well-established protocol to quantify the
antipredator behaviour of the minnows (e.g. Mathis & Smith
1993; Ferrari et al. 2005; Ferrari & Chivers 2006a) based on
shoaling index (the shoaling index of the three fish every 15 s;
1, no fish within a body length of another; 2, two fish within a
body length of each other; and 3, all the three fishes within a
body length of each other) and line crosses (the number of
line crosses, using the 3 ! 3 grid pattern drawn on the side of
the tank, made by one of the three minnows, randomly
chosen, during the observation period, using a click counter).
An increase in shoaling and a reduction in movement are
well-established antipredator responses in fathead minnows
(Ferrari et al. 2005; Ferrari & Chivers 2006a).

UNQUOTE

TL
MC
Last edited by Mike Connor on Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
overmywaders
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Re: Perception

Post by overmywaders » Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:47 am

hank,

Typically the trout or other fish are tested in tanks or simulated streams. The variables of turbidity and crud are reduced in this manner, which may be unfortunate for resolution of your question.

When testing trout for color discernment and memory, for example, they provide food rewards for pressing the right target, just as they would in testing rat behavior. Fascinating work. Sometimes non-behavioral scientists do not work with the living fish but study only the eyes of the trout, or just parts of the retina. I guess none of these studies is likely to answer your questions.

Regards,
Reed
-------------
Reed F. Curry
Overmywaders
The Contemplative Angler
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