Long Rods

[skunkaroo]

You make note of the fairly "elastic lines" these rods come with. While I'm sure thy will be useful when I finally catch a large fish with it, I find it very annoying how these things twist up when breaking off a snag. A small price to pay perhaps, but annoying none-the-less.

Aaron

[CM_Stewart]

If one hooks a larger fish, then one must change methods, as otherwise one can ONLY use the constant tip pressure to fight it. The trick here is to use sidestrain to keep the fish off balance, and increase the pressure on it. The angle of the rod to the line determines the amount of pressure being exerted on the fish, and with a big fish, simply holding the rod more or less vertical and allowing the bend in the tip to exert pressure simply wont work very well. This gives too little pressure, and no control. One must constantly adjust the attack angle of the rod to increase or maintain pressure as desired, and also to prevent the fish managing a direct pull on the line.

This can be quite hard to learn, and most people lose the first few big fish they hook because they don't yet know how to do it.

Anyway, and what is germane here, is that if you are expecting larger fish, then you can use a "beefier" rod, because this will allow you to keep a higher constant pressure on the fish and still use the conventional method of playing it. In point of fact, the "beefier" the rod, the less skill required to land a fish. Of course there are also other considerations here as well. But that covers the point I was trying to make.

Good point on changing the rod angle, Mike, and one that Dr. Ishigaki tried to demonstrate in his Catskills presentation when someone asked him how to land large fish on a tenkara rod. With the translator pretending to be a fish and running around the room holding the line, it was hard to understand what she was saying, and hard to hear her over the laughter. The general point was the same, though: change the rod angle to continually put pressure on the fish and to try to maintain control.

I don't know the proper terminology to use to describe the differences in the rods. As you say the action descriptions (5:5, 7:3, etc.) indicate how the rod bends, with the 7:3 bending primarily in the tip sections and the 5:5 being being more full flex - or "faster" and "slower" in fly rod parlance. Completely apart from that, the Yamame is a stiffer rod, and the Iwana bends very easily. I avoid the temptation to say they are like a 2 wt, a 5 wt and an 8 wt, because I can cast the same line equally well with each rod, the tip sections of the Yamame are nowhere near as stiff as my 8 wt flyrod, and overall the action of all three rods is not really like that of my fly rods.

skunkaroo, I like the furled tenkara line but I generally use a level line instead and mostly use 10# test fluorocarbon spinning line. The only problem with that is I can't see the line against a forest background unless it is pretty brightly colored, and I've only been able to find one brightly colored fluorocarbon in the US. It's been discontinued and is now only available in 600 yard spools. Bit of a waste when you only need 3 or 4 yards for a tenkara line.

[skunkaroo]

As it happens, I was rather surprised to see how elastic these lines are. I have only ever seen one "genuine Tenkara" line, but it is not a line I would fish with. I suspect there will be problems with it.

The line I purchased from Danial (basically a very long furled leader) actually states that the coiling issue is normal and that you simply need to gently stroke the line 20 or 30 times (sounds rather suggestive ).

I'll look at the pole elastic as a possibility--might be tough to find on this side of the pond though. Maybe a switch to an elastic copolymer such as frog hair might be better.

skunkaroo, I like the furled tenkara line but I generally use a level line instead and mostly use 10# test fluorocarbon spinning line. The only problem with that is I can't see the line against a forest background unless it is pretty brightly colored, and I've only been able to find one brightly colored fluorocarbon in the US. It's been discontinued and is now only available in 600 yard spools. Bit of a waste when you only need 3 or 4 yards for a tenkara line.

Why fluorocarbon over mono? Sinking properties? Strength to diameter? Coiling issues? And why level as opposed to knotted or tapered? When I nymph with my fly rod (and sometimes when fishing wets) I generally use a piece of stiff Maxima Chameleon, followed by a section of Maxima Ultragreen, followed by the desired tippet (usually 6x Fluoro).

Aaron

[narcodog]

Man, you guys are making something that I thought was fairly simple, more complicated and confusing.

[CM_Stewart]

Sorry, narcodog. It really is simple. Buy an Ebisu tenkara rod, 5:5 if you like a slightly slower rod, 6:4 if you like a slightly faster rod. Buy the line that goes with it. Tie some flies.

Just add water.

[CM_Stewart]

skunkaroo, I use fluorocarbon rather than nylon mono because it is denser, meaning I can use a lighter line and still overcome the wind resistance of casting (because it has a smaller cross section). I want to use the lightest line I can cast so that I can hold more of it off the water. Fluorocarbon has a much smaller cross section than furled mono (of equal mass). Level rather than knotted because fluorocarbon is too damned expensive to buy lots of different weights - especially when the only one I can see only comes in 600 yard spools. Japanese tenkara anglers just add a meter of tippet to their fluorocarbon line, but I use a 2' section of mono tapering from 0x to 4x, and then 2' of 5x tippet. I think it helps flies turn over a bit better, and puts the bright pink line just a bit farther away from the fly.

Maybe I should try Daniel's line again, as he seems to be able to keep it off the water pretty well in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N40BOFYKR38

[narcodog]

Well, I ordered the rod today, except I ordered the 13 footer which is new. I'll see how it goes.

I gonna use that rod on the Henry's Fork and Madison.

[skunkaroo]

Well, I ordered the rod today, except I ordered the 13 footer which is new. I'll see how it goes.

Heh heh. Looks like you got sucked in too. ...You won't regret it.

[narcodog]

I tell you those folks are fast. I ordered it and in about an hour I was notified that it was mailed. With that 13 ft rod there should not be to much casting to be done, just stand back and hold it over the water. I think that it is going to be a perfect rod for a stream like the Gibbon where you have to stand back to cast to those Browns.

[CM_Stewart]

With that 13 ft rod there should not be to much casting to be done, just stand back and hold it over the water.

Don't kid yourself. Within the first minute of getting to the stream (unless you have a back yard, in which case long before you even get close to a stream), you're going to at least TRY to cast it. Within a few minutes of casting, when you realize it doesn't cast quite like any fly rod you've tried (less arm, more wrist, finesse rather than force, 10 to 12 rather than 10 to 2, with a very crisp rod stop at the end of the cast) you'll realize how well it casts. You can fish across current seams, on the other side of rocks, etc. If you have room overhead, or room for a sidearm cast, or room for a bow and arrow cast, you'll be casting.

That said, (and refreshing my faded memory of the Gibbon) the length should allow you to cast to the undercut banks on the other side of the stream as well as essentially dapping into the little cuts on your own side. By stopping the cast with the rod held high, you can fish so that only the fly and just a little bit of tippet lands on the water.

After fishing a fixed line with a 9' flyrod, a 10' panfish pole, and 11' and 12' tenkara rods, and knowing how much added reach and capability each additional foot gives, I 'll get one soon too. Where I usually fish, there may be too many overhead branches, but for open rivers, longer is better.