Hackle Availability

[fflutterffly]

Jim, my comments about feather peddlers is used in the form as the universal seller and in no way is directed at one retailer. I do understand business, making a profit and supply and demand, but this is what I find offensive: Fly tiers are a loyal base group. Operative word is "Loyal." Fly tiers need uniformity, which equates to quality. Hair extensions or other fashion statements do not demand or need such quality. An impetuous 10 year old in Hollywood, Ca does not know the difference between a gold cape or bronze Hackle. So, why hadn't the dealers marketed the less quality to these people and assure the tier the quality they needed. I'm offended by the "grab the last dime" mentality. Capitalism does not mean screw the next guy. That's called greed, or in some cases taking advantage of the current situation, kind of like boosting the cost of sugar during WWII, to make a profit. OK a bit extreme, but you see the point.

I must ignorant. Can anyone please tell me what they long silky feathers from chickens were used for other than fly tying? I'm serious. I really do not know and would like to understand more.

I just want to tie flies and catch fish on them.

[gingerdun]

I should probably stay out of this dispute, but I am compelled to say I agree with Jim. Fly fishing is subject to supply and demand, just like any other endeavor. We are accustomed to the extremely high prices that book dealers charge for rare, out-of-print editions, but don't accuse them of greed. If there is continued demand for feathers for the fashion industry, then, presumably, growers will gradually increase production, and prices will dip. This kind of fluctuation in the market is out of our control. There have been other instances of external events causing shortages of tying materials, such as the wartime shutdown of steel hook production, and the effects of the migratory bird treaty, or the prohibition of killing seals. We just have to roll with the punches, and not let such events cause divisions within our community of fly-tyers. Things will settle down. Ruard's motto applies here—"There will always be a solution."

Lance

[Mike Connor]

There has been a very great deal of nonsense talked about this. Jim is perfectly right, and the position he states is merely common sense. People running businesses are obliged to do as well as they can, they depend on it for their own and their employees livings. Altruism is all very well but it is only possible if one can afford it. Fly-dressers have no more right to preferential treatment than any other group, and it is remarkably silly of anybody who has grown up in Western society to expect it or attempt to mandate it for others. Accusing people of being greedy and suchlike for following normal business practice is naive at best.

TL
MC

[Kelly L.]

I tend to agree with fflutterffly, if that is naive, so be it. I have all kinds of hackle, and require all kinds of hackle. I need saddles as I am a streamer tyer too. I need capes as I use them in streamers, and different flies. I need hen hackle for soft hackle, warm water flies. I see nothing wrong with taking care of your loyal customers during a period of insanity. I refuse to pay the prices I saw on Ebay etc... because women wanted to put chicken feathers in their hair. Sure it is supply and demand. But these are not birds that are hard to raise, nor are they imported. They are CHICKENS. I do not have high dollar dry fly hackle. I cannot afford it, and I don't need it. I have some dry fly hackle, but I don't make primarily trout flies, so it it not as important to me. When the hair craze has completely died down, and it will...then what? Frankly I have been ticked. The thing I like about Denny is, he knows who his customer base is. He will NOT sell to hair ladies. Another guy, Chris Helm, will not sell to hair ladies either. I'm not saying you shouldn't sell any to them...but how about a bit lower quality feather to them instead? I have seen dealers mark up their prices that was just incredible. I tend to avoid those who do that, in future purchases. If tyers need hen hackle for instance, the growers such as Whiting should fill that need. Tyers were their number one buyer. I need good long saddle hackle. I couldn't get it because the sellers sold it off, all of their stock...not some, not a little, not most, but all their stock. There is one particular dealer I know, who really jacked his prices up, and his overall prices are high too. I refuse to buy from him. I have bought materials from countless sources. When a dealer goes out of their way to please me, I keep coming back as a customer. That is long term "supply and demand". Do me right, and you have a customer for life. This post is not directed at anyone here, nor is it made to argue. I am just stating my opinion as a tyer. Some tyers had loads of feathers, and weathered the feather craze just fine. Some even sold some of their stock. That is fine. But some of us are fairly new, or new at tying. It was distressing that I could not, and still can not get some feathers I need. Call me petty, but I am angry about it. I have also begun to use more synthetics in a lot of my tyes. If I could of stopped feathers altogether to sear in that point, I would have. Sadly I have not been able to do that. If I had an alternative, I would of switched until sanity came back to the feather industry.

[Jim Slattery]

Hi Flutterfly,
Here is the rub. Saddles became a hot commodity. It seemed as if everyone and their mother were walking into fly shops or other traditional means of buying saddle hackle to but saddles. Not just buying one but buying all, it was that crazy. These opportunists then took the product and sold it for 10 to 100 times more than what they paid for it, basically without doing any work at all except walking into a store and making a purchase. No lie, some people were getting into fights. "I saw that yesterday and I came in today to buy it .Give it to me" type of thing. By the time most retailers and producers realized what was going on there was a genuine shortage of saddle hackle.
There were always capes available, even when the saddle stock had dried up and at suggested retail price. But as the saddle stock dried up the opportunits started buying high grade capes. They would then pluck out the long feathers and return the product saying that they didn't need it or it wasn't what they wanted. At that point I myself just pulled all hackle off the internet. Hackle was still available but you had to prove to us that you were going to use it for fly tying or at least know certain intricacies related to tying. If you were suspect you might leave with one cape. During the hieght of the craze I had about 70 to 50 Midge saddles hanging on the wall, at suggested retail price. It took about a week and they were gone. Fly fishermen and fly tiers were buying them 6, 8 10 at a time. We knew what most of them were going to do with them, sell them on ebay! They knew what was going on, or perhaps their girlfriends or wives asked them to buy them if they saw saddles on their trip to Montana. You could overhear them as they walked out the door. We were just dumb clucks in Montana that didn't know what was going on I suppose.
At any event these were extrodinary circumstances. Hopefully as the hackle production has been ramped up to meet the demand things will level off. It is interesting to note that traditionally the biggest demand for feathers is from the fashion industry and it always has been. This is big reason why we have the migratory bird laws we do today. The fashion industry finally got around to poking into what we have lying about in our sand box and that's when all hell broke loose.
Jim

[Jim Slattery]

Hi Kelly,
Chickens are fairly easy to raise, but if you want long feathers it takes 12 to 16 months to raise them. Only one grower has the premium real long feathers. All growers plan a year in advance what they are going to produce and make adjustments according to sales trends from the past season. These bird flocks are highly prized and guarded genetic lines. Taking decades of meticulious work and record keeping to develope. One can not just open the floodgates of production to meet the demand. At the least you will loose control ( security) of your genetic line. A couple hundred eggs go missing and someone else is in business with your product and all the work you put into it.
Jim

[Kelly L.]

I agree with you on that. Both my grandma's raised chickens. The prices that are high of course, come from US stock mostly. The prices of say Whiting American Rooster hackle was reasonable. It was extremely hard to find, and just now, you can acquire some. There was a good line of salt water saddle hackle, but they quit the business, on that particular line. It was very disappointing to me, as a tyer just now for four years, to not be able to get feathers I needed. There are some good dealers out there. The ones who set aside stock for their regular customers especially have my respect. You keep the good stuff off the shelves, and in a back room. You don't sell a large amount of feathers to one person, especially if you feel they will resell your feathers, at a greatly increased amount. The local guy for me was bought out by feather ladies. I do not know if he was aware of the fad, until they hit his place, and bought him out. Little solace for those whom he knew were dedicated tyers. He bought bucktails especially for me. He knew full well I was a dedicated tyer. Thankfully I now have plenty of bucktails. I still have a need for some feathers, but I have to cut my tying budget dramatically this year. I still need saddle feathers in colors I don't have, and some hen feathers too. But I will have to buy them as I can, if I can find them. Very disappointing to say the least. The fad will be long gone, before the bad taste in my mouth from this ordeal has.

[JohnP]

I have been having trouble finding Brahma hen hackle. Probably just as well, given the state of the family budget.

[Jim Slattery]

Hi John,
Unfortunately Brahma Hen is one of the casualties.
Jim

[Kelly L.]

I was looking for one of them too. I even ordered some that said they were in stock. Then I got an email saying they weren't. It was aggravating.