Can some one direct me to a reference or just tell me, what size, shape.etc. of hooks were "f", "ff", "fff", and "fe"? Book published in 1843.
Rex
18th/19th Century Hook Sizes
Moderators: William Anderson, letumgo
Re: 18th/19th Century Hook Sizes
Hi Rex!
I have never heard of a hook scale like you have listed above! I do remember reading about what the British referred to as "Old Scale" and "New Scale". Dana Reed (Theroe) is a whiz at hook histories and so is John Shaner! If I have missed other qualified hook guys, my apologies!
From my cozy, warm Den,
Dougsden
I have never heard of a hook scale like you have listed above! I do remember reading about what the British referred to as "Old Scale" and "New Scale". Dana Reed (Theroe) is a whiz at hook histories and so is John Shaner! If I have missed other qualified hook guys, my apologies!
From my cozy, warm Den,
Dougsden
Fish when you can, not when you should! Anything short of this is just a disaster.
Re: 18th/19th Century Hook Sizes
What was the title of the book? I have quite a few 19th century titles at hand but would need to know the author, etc.
Trying to reference the older hook sizes can be problematic at best as there was no standard sizing. There really isn't any true standard sizing today, either. Then as now, each hook maker used their own sizing.
During the 19th century the first standard hook sizing sale was the "Reddich Scale", the scale we know with today, but many hook makers adopted what was called the "New Scale" which used single numbers like "1" and "2" for larger hooks with the smaller hooks being designated with "0" down to "000000". These numbers were very cumbersome for obvious reasons. The "New Scale" sizes were often listed with reference to the "Old" or "Redditch" Scale because everyone was still familiar with it. The "New Scale" persisted into the 20th century when everyone went back to the "Old Scale"!
Many of the older books have printed hook charts that you can lay a hook on to size it but this can be a guessing game as well. Remember that older hooks were often smaller size for size than modern hooks, especially when compared with Mustad hooks.
One of the best and most lucid discussions of hook sizing is in Datus Proper's "What the Trout Said".
The very best advice I have is not to get too concerned with old hook sizes and tie on the sizes that work best for your fishing conditions.
Trying to reference the older hook sizes can be problematic at best as there was no standard sizing. There really isn't any true standard sizing today, either. Then as now, each hook maker used their own sizing.
During the 19th century the first standard hook sizing sale was the "Reddich Scale", the scale we know with today, but many hook makers adopted what was called the "New Scale" which used single numbers like "1" and "2" for larger hooks with the smaller hooks being designated with "0" down to "000000". These numbers were very cumbersome for obvious reasons. The "New Scale" sizes were often listed with reference to the "Old" or "Redditch" Scale because everyone was still familiar with it. The "New Scale" persisted into the 20th century when everyone went back to the "Old Scale"!
Many of the older books have printed hook charts that you can lay a hook on to size it but this can be a guessing game as well. Remember that older hooks were often smaller size for size than modern hooks, especially when compared with Mustad hooks.
One of the best and most lucid discussions of hook sizing is in Datus Proper's "What the Trout Said".
The very best advice I have is not to get too concerned with old hook sizes and tie on the sizes that work best for your fishing conditions.
Re: 18th/19th Century Hook Sizes
https://archive.org/details/anglerscomp ... 5/mode/1up
- 78D96030-33CB-42E5-922A-E895536F7F2B.jpeg (304.3 KiB) Viewed 5291 times
Re: 18th/19th Century Hook Sizes
Thanks for the information. Just a bit of a history buff, fly tying is no exception. I have not heard of this system of hook sizing
I was attracted by the title. Catechism of Fly Making Angling and Dyeing https://archive.org/details/wblackersar ... 8/mode/2up by William Blacker (1843 edition – 130 pages)
I hope this helps! The excerpt below is from this book. Bold and italics added.
Topics Flies, Artificial, Fly casting
Publisher London : W. Blacker
Collection americana
Digitizing sponsor Brigham Young University
Contributor Harold B. Lee Library
Language English
Magee, D. Victoria R.I.
I was attracted by the title. Catechism of Fly Making Angling and Dyeing https://archive.org/details/wblackersar ... 8/mode/2up by William Blacker (1843 edition – 130 pages)
I hope this helps! The excerpt below is from this book. Bold and italics added.
Publication date 184219. — Grey Drake, (End of April,)
Hook ff — Body, Rat's back fur, mixed with yellow mohair. Tail, Three fibres of the mallard. Legs, Grey hackle. Wings, Grey mallard. Head, Peacock harl.
20. — Hawthorn Fly. (May.)
Hook ff[.— Body, Black mohair.
Legs, Black hackle, at the shoulder. Wings, Starling or jay wings.
21.— The Black Ant. (July,)
Hook f[. — Body, Black mohair. Legs, Black hackle. Wings, Water-hen wing, or woodcock.
22.— The Little Gosling. (July,)
Hook fe.— Body, Yellow green mohair.
Legs, Red or cinnamon hackle. Wings, Starling or bunting wing.
W. Blacker's art of angling, and complete system of fly making and dying [sic] of colours : illustrated with plates shewing the difference processes of the fly before it is finished, giving the angler a perfect knowledge of every thing requisite to complete him in this noble art
by Blacker, W. (William)
Topics Flies, Artificial, Fly casting
Publisher London : W. Blacker
Collection americana
Digitizing sponsor Brigham Young University
Contributor Harold B. Lee Library
Language English
Magee, D. Victoria R.I.
Last edited by paparex on Mon Feb 28, 2022 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 18th/19th Century Hook Sizes
Guys,
This is fascinating stuff! John, that's the name I was looking for, "Reddich" scale! Thank you!
Bill, also quite interesting how the lengths (less the hook eye) were equated to numbers! Yea, I can see myself fouling this up rather quickly!
Doug
This is fascinating stuff! John, that's the name I was looking for, "Reddich" scale! Thank you!
Bill, also quite interesting how the lengths (less the hook eye) were equated to numbers! Yea, I can see myself fouling this up rather quickly!
Doug
Fish when you can, not when you should! Anything short of this is just a disaster.
Re: 18th/19th Century Hook Sizes
I took the picture of the hook sizes in this book:
https://www.anglebooks.com/catalog/prod ... w/id/47888
https://www.anglebooks.com/catalog/prod ... w/id/47888