Natural by manipulation?

[daringduffer]

If you want to try some of these things, and they work extremely well when used properly, one of the longer stiffer Tenkara rods which have been discussed here on the board is an ideal tool for the purpose.

Mike,

As I hoped for, this topic is evolving into something extra. (I will print it out and re-read over and over). That piece of advise here quoted is the same that CM Stewart gave me when I contacted him via PM. I know a stream scattered with small trout that will be a pefect place to practise this methodical approach. Since life is getting shorter the longer one lives, it is important to concentrate on what is important. Looks like Tenkara has to be the next step...

dd

[daringduffer]

Is it really a case of it being "the singer and not the song"? I think this must often be the case. The talents and skills of anglers vary very widely indeed, and some things seem to be very difficult indeed for many, which explains why they don't engage in them. It of course also explains why some always stand out from the crowd

I have a friend who is a very, very good fisherman. Once he cleaned out his fly boxes from non-productive flies with the intention to throw them away. His mentor - who never tied a fly - asked if he could have them instead. During the following seasons he vacuumed the streams with these un-productive flies...

dd

[Otter]

It always amuses me Mike at the number of major contradictions in some of what you write that could have you locked away and certified as a raving lunatic

If I were a tabloid newspaper reporter, I would have a front page headline "Despite years of denial Mike advocates Jigging flies and is a closet downstream angler"

This is what makes it so difficult for any writer to explain a lot of these things. There are in my view some standardish manipulations and there is some very specialised stuff for quite specific water and conditions. And its great that Mike is spelling them all out , just make sure you understand the context !!!!!! Some of this specialised stuff may mean a take from a specimen trout that would be beyond reach of 9 out of 10 anglers.

One I use myself with about a 1 in 20 result and often extraordinarlily takes a better than average trout. When fan nymphing or fishing tactical teams up through a run, once I feel I have done a particular section of the run justice I will on the final cast let the nymphs/wets come level with me on a very slack line letting the stretcher get as far down as possible and do a nuclear rocket assisted sideways downstream lift - this will be almost as fast as I can possibly achieve.
Mad, but it does take fish - and this will be one that has completely ignored dead drift, has ignored subtle movements etc...

Thanks Mike , some more good stuff in there.

[Otter]

Nah, drifting sand eels on a single hook on a coming tide for sea trout is the ultimate jigging- you could spend your whole life at it and never quite discover the right moment to strike - and after each miss you will do serious jigging indeed.

[daringduffer]

One problem with describing all these tactics is that people do tend to try one or two of them but ignore the others.

Another mistake easily made is to try a tactic without adjusting to conditions and then draw the conclusion that this tactic is a failure if one doesn't get immediate success. That is why I will try to systematically experiment with those tactics next season aiming at a more methodical approach to my fishing. I hope the smallish trout in that stream close to Mike Brave's cabin will help me with this task.

I also intend to serve some grayling lunker a creeper in size 6...

dd

Please Mike, and others, don't stop.

[Otter]

Fished similar mounts and hated them - it destroyed the moment of the take as the odds while by no means certain were too stacked in my favour. The take followed by a long sold draw or the nip nip on slacker tides followed by complete uncertainty were for me in a sadistic kinda way , tremendous fun - and a welcome relief from the hard work and tedium of salmon fishing.

enough about that

[hankaye]

Mike, Otter, howdy to both;

Thank you both for the interesting and enjoyable topic. It's all going in my files to be studied more thourghly later and from time to time to pick-up the parts that I envariably miss the first dozen times thru.

I have used 'jigging' for awhile, albeit, spin fishing for crappie. One of the surest ways to fill a cooler for dinner.
A lot of Walleye fisherfolk also use various methods of 'jigging' to get there limit, or fill there day. Whichever comes first...
This past Summer, my first with just flyfishing as a method of fishing. As I was on a Lake (extreamly slack as far as current goes),
and no means to cover the surface other than from shore, I resorted to a proven style (for me), and that was to jig the flys.
I would also 'swim' them by stripping in line. Then I would have to have to cast it back out to the extent that I could thus giving me some practice with that aspect of the sport. Also, I would attempt to place the fly in various different holes in the lake grass striving for accuracy and distance control.

Mike I appericate the link to the Sexyloops site and the casting 'games'.. . Looks like I've got a ton of work to do...

Again, Thank you BOTH...
hank

[Otter]

Mike earlier you mentioned twitching spent flies, this is not something I believe to have read elsewhere in reference specifically to spent though I may be mistaken.

Is this something you do in general or specifically for those back eddies , usually in awkward places , that can often be the graveyard for a multitude of stuff. The odd twitch on such water can and does often work for small black stuff and for spent spinners. On such water its not so much the twitch as playing close attention to whats happening. Often I have found that on rivers we can fall into the trap of believing that most of the fish are pretty static whilst feeding, which can be the case on faster water but on the slacks and back eddies quite often most of the trout are patrolling and if you cast at the first rise you see you may well ruin any oppurtunity. I reckon the secret here is to take your time and try and figure out whether there is one or more trout on patrol , work out the general route , cast and leave it there and a small twitch when you reckon the trout is in the vicinity. Not a sure fire method, but it works with reasonable regularity and can account for a sizeable trout. If you find that the trout is pretty static, and rising very frequently then you have no choice but to cover his where he is - would a sparse spider be the best choice here I wonder.

Over the last few years I have taken a lot of trout on a skating size 20/22 dry "black stuff" imitation. This is controlled skating in the sense that you want drag to kick in just as the fly reaches the trout - 3 inches here is crucial to detmining success or failure. I have only used this on two locations and in very specific wind conditions that have very similar sluggish water and geography and very similar accessibility constraints.

It is on my must try list, to present a small stewarts spider and try the same manevoure - its very testing as you have to wait maybe ten to fifteen minutes for feeding to re-commence but in such water it generally does as the volume of feed on offer it seems hard for small to medium sized trout to resist feeding. Wait a few minute once they have re-started feeding before further attempts. I generally try 3 tio 5 times , the reward will not be a big trout but its good fun as you test your timing.

[Otter]

Is there a case to be answered or at least discussed that larger trout will have to go through a transitional stage where they move primarily to a piscavorial diet. Obviously getting tp this stage for many trout depending on their environment is likely to be a gradual process but at some point it will tip more towards the piscavorial though the impulse to feed on insects will still be a strong one. I wonder if we find a trout that is on a very divided diet that we may see some oddball behaviour , a trout that has grown to be very discerning on his insect diet but not quite the totally accomplished hunter re piscavorial matters. As I say this is purely speculative and may be utter nonsense but well worth considering.

[Otter]

The more one fishes the more odd things one experiences...

Indeed, and the odd things more likely coming from anglers than trout.