Natural by manipulation?

[daringduffer]

I would love to read about what can be achieved by various ways of manipulation ones flies and what is needed in flies and fishing equipment to do this. As can be understood, this topic is a result of what Mike has written in other threads but anybodys input is welcome. I realize that it can be difficult to describe in just words, but one could try. Hoffentlich this thread will be as busy as "Natural by design"...

dd

[Otter]

What a little question that is.

I think Mike will require a new keyboard or a thought recognition system never mind a voice recognition system to answer this one.

If mike can put into words specific manipulations for specific insects/insect groupings I believe it would be the most unique insight into trout fishing written in the last 100 years and would be worthy of a nobel prize.

[hankaye]

What a little question that is.

I think Mike will require a new keyboard or a thought recognition system never mind a voice recognition system to answer this one.

If mike can put into words specific manipulations for specific insects/insect groupings I believe it would be the most unique insight into trout fishing written in the last 100 years and would be worthy of a nobel prize.

What Otter said times 2
hank

[daringduffer]

What a little question that is.

I think Mike will require a new keyboard or a thought recognition system never mind a voice recognition system to answer this one.

If mike can put into words specific manipulations for specific insects/insect groupings I believe it would be the most unique insight into trout fishing written in the last 100 years and would be worthy of a nobel prize.

Can you think of anybody more accomplished to try? Or, for that matter, a more worthy task? But I have not asked for "specific manipulations for specific insects", even if that would be more than welcome. How about one, or a few, examples?

Dearest Otter - this calls for encouragement. I sincerely hope you have a fair share of it.

dd

[Otter]

What a little question that is.

I think Mike will require a new keyboard or a thought recognition system never mind a voice recognition system to answer this one.

If mike can put into words specific manipulations for specific insects/insect groupings I believe it would be the most unique insight into trout fishing written in the last 100 years and would be worthy of a nobel prize.

Can you think of anybody more accomplished to try? Or, for that matter, a more worthy task? But I have not asked for "specific manipulations for specific insects", even if that would be more than welcome. How about one, or a few, examples?

Dearest Otter - this calls for encouragement. I sincerely hope you have a fair share of it.

dd

Mike has discussed this here and elsewhere on numerous occasions, and whilst he tentatively touched on some manipulations I can see that more detail on the manipulations would indeed receive much interest. It would be rather huge undertaking to go into such detail, particularily on the use of strategic teams where each detail in the in the design of each in the team is used to make one of the team behave in a very particular way. I can envisage that some teams could be devised in such a manner as to where the components design allow for success without manipulation and many more designed to work effectively by manipulation.

I guess it would be a work of biblical proportions to explain it all, however it is of such immesurable importance to the success of any wet fly angler that any insights that would open our minds as to what is involved I'm sure would be huge a huge advancement in knowledge for many here.

[daringduffer]

It is impossible to build a house from only one brick, no matter how big that brick is. It is possible to build a big house, brick by brick, even if they are small. There are always people prepared to declare things almost, or totally, impossible. This is an attitude that sometimes upset me, at other times it just make me tired.

For years I have found Mike very generous with his accumulated knowledge and educational capabilities. No doubt has he sometimes found it difficult to get people to understand. In my language there is a term, "tyst kunskap" (silent knowledge), which refers to what is difficult or almost impossible to express in written or spoken instructions. It might be shown but mostly it has to be learned by experience. This process is much easier if one is told/shown where to start.

I want to be polite. My parents tried to bring me up that way. Sometimes it is harder than other times. I strongly dislike defeatism. I accept to be told things are difficult. Anybody can understand that this topic is about learning. All I am asking for is a couple of bricks. Who knows - maybe we will build a house!

dd

[Otter]

DD

I suspect you are misreading what i am saying. I too hope that Mike can add some more detail to what he has written here already on manipulation and if he has the time and interest I would be the first to encourage him to do so - nay, its such an important area I would near beg him to do so

If we build a house can it be close to a nice river please.

[Ruard]

About manipulation of flies. We fish in in canals that are not running at all so all the movement depends on manipulation. first of all you wait till your flies are deep that is all the nylon or fluorocarbon of the leader is under water. My leader consist mostly of 12/100 nylon. There could be a take in this phase the manipulation is let the flies sinking. then we move the flies very slow by a figure of eight. The movement of the flies vary from slow to very slow and then again somewhat more with a bit yerkey movement. If I have fished out the cast I lift the flies slowly out of the water and looking to the bent in the line I can see a movement in the line and it means a fish. As Jan Schreiner said:"movement means something to eat for a fish"

Greeting

[letumgo]

dd - I will give you one small example of manipulating a fly ("dapping"). I have used this method on occasion to manipulate a fly by suspending it over the water and lightly touching in into and out of the water. I don't use this method often, but it has proven effective in a few difficult situations. It worked well for me a few years ago. My son and I went up to the Adirondacks we spent a couple days fly fishing the West Branch of the Ausable river (near Lake Placid, New York). We used my copper rear hares ear soft hackle fly to catch the best fish of the trip.

We had to watch this fish for over a half hour to figure out his feeding pattern and watch his movements. We ended up "dapping" the fly onto the water from an overhanging tree. My son pulled out line for me while I hung the rod out over the stream. We waited for the trout to pass by and then dropped the fly into the water when he turned around. There were a couple smaller fish that made a dash for the fly, but when the big guy saw it he charged forward and SMASHED the fly.

Once the fish was hooked I realized that we could not land the fish from our perch in the tree, so my son had to climb down into the stream where I handed him the fly rod. My son played out the trout and I netted it. What a beautiful fish this was.

This fish was the highlight of our trip, and one I will remember for years to come.

If you look closely, you will see the trout cruising to the right in the photo (near the foliage).

2007_0813_142643AA.JPG

Here I am hanging the fly out over the water.

2007_0813_144243AA.JPG

Fish On!!!

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[William Anderson]

Ray, how cool is that. And you have pics to remember the story even.

dd, I remember something similar, although I think the more enlightened posts are going to deal with the Leisenring lift and twitching wet flies to imitate fly behavior (emerging...egg laying, etc.), but mine isn't quite so elegant. I was fishing a spring creek in central PA a few summers ago, late summer, and a guy was bouncing hopper patterns off the rocks cross stream. I saw him take a couple nice trout that way. The hopper would splat on the surface and wham. So I had the opportunity to try something similar with black ants on a little brookie stream. It was fun, and effective under the right circumstances.

w