Natural by design

[hankaye]

Mike,

Didn't realize you were up this early.

I'll send you a PM with my e-mail if that would work better for you.
hank

[hankaye]

Howdy Mike,
Sent you an note.
Nearer to 01:00 here need to get my furry butt to bed.
Thanks,
hank

[Otter]

.....

What any particular author means by "hackled" depends entirely on the context, and lastly, your interpretation of it.

Regards and tight lines!

Mike

Well why didn't you just say that

Thanks Mike, much appreciated and I think it gives a clearer picture of the provenance of these flies - and indeed may answer questions that were annoying me concerning one or two patterns that have worked well for me but I also knew they were falling a touch short of being really successful.

Thats another pint of Guinness I owe you !!!!

[Otter]

Iron Blue (Baetis niger) is a fly that fascinates me in that its a hard one to get right as the hatches are so variable. You can go a whole season and miss the hatches, another season could see you flapping about as fish rise all round you. With limited oppurtunites to get it right its one of those hatches that can niggle at you during the winter months. I could walk away from this one but for any of you that has witnessed a serious hatch of Iron Blues and the trouts reaction to it you will understand my desire to be able to deal with this hatch in the best way possible. To-date my success during these hatches has been at best mediocre.

I have tied up a few of the recomended patterns and they have taken a small number of trout , dark watchetts etc...

Continuing the quest I have looked at websters pattern for the Iron Blue which calls for yellow and black silk. The big question here is what could that mean.

- Yellow and Black wrapped together with black at head - most likely
- Yellow and Black wrapped together with yellow at head - hmm possibly but unlikely
- Black Body , yellow head - hmm, probably unlikely
- yellow body black head - unlikely

The other interesting bit is the wings. He recommends hen blackbird but mentions cormorant, waterhen breast, waterhen wing used by others of reputation and mentions that the wings can vary in hue. Very rare to see such precision and reasoning actually stated in a book.

[William Anderson]

As for the Beatis hatch, I'm not familiar with your situation, but I found this: Eric Austin has a really nice article in the flyfisher's online forum a while ago.

http://flyanglersonline.com/features/ol ... art346.php

He associates the pattern with the Paralept family, which has always been my assumption too. I too find little resemblence to the historic pattern and the flies that I have caught on the streams in the Northeast/ Mid-Atlantic US. The snipe and purple is a much better match than the Iron Blue Dun pattern. imho. Anyone have a really nice shot of a Paralept natural?

This pattern (or group of patterns was no doubt developed before we were using flies in North America. Curious to hear what the pattern was intended to represent in the UK back in the day.

This was interesting: http://www.first-nature.com/insects/eph ... uticus.php

w

[William Anderson]

This might should be in a different thread about matching the Beatis Niger or the Paralept families. We could move it, but for now...I have a couple of patterns to show that were tied for a couple IBF Swaps.

Iron Blue Dun Flymph - (person variant)

flym_iron blue dun_william anderson.jpg

And the Snipe and Purple. (not especially well tied. This was before Hans taught me how to manipulate and cord the gossamer silk, but it is passable.)

IBF8.1_snipe & purple_william anderson.jpg

Otter, do you have a pattern that you use for the Beatis hatch that we can look at? And what are your thoughts on the Iron Blue as an imitation of the Paralepts?

[Otter]

Hi William

I have no knowledge whatsoever of Paralepts, and for that matter not a whole lot on Iron Blues either.
Info on Iron Blues seems pretty scarce, with most books parroting what came before and its rare to get more than a small paragraph of info anywhere.

Most dry patterns i have seen are pretty close to that in your link to eric astin, with some modern versions tyed F fly style on curved hooks, usually crimson or similar colur thread bare at bend, moles fur or heron body. I recently read a book from an ex competition angler that uses the f fly and seems convinced that on some days the heron body will out fish the mole body and vice versa - he believes that light conditions are responsible for the marked difference.

I hit on a dry pattern by chance last season that I was using for small spurwings and other small olives, one batch that i had tied were over waxed and had darkened significantly - to a very greyish green olive. In the midst of a sporadic hatch of spurwings the river boiled for about an hour and a half to a massive hatch of Iron Blues and the size 18 I had on was taken by nearly every fish I presented it to.

As to wets/spiders/softwings I have only fished the usual candidates inc snipe and purple - and with very limited success.

My interest in Websters pattern is based on the likelyhood that he would have experienced greater hatches than we experience to-day and would have had to have a really good pattern to succeed. As far as i can tell it has disappeared from many rivers in these parts.

[tie2fish]

William ~ Is it the Paraleptophlebia adoptiva that we commonly call a Blue Quill that you're interested in seeing?
If so, there's a really good photo of a male dun in Thomas Ames' "Fishbugs" book. For what it's worth, this insect looks more gray than purple to me, but the snipe hackle is a good fit.

[Soft-hackle]

Hi,
Most of the Paraleps I've seen are reddish brown, not gray. The only one I remember seeing was Paraleptophelbia mollis that had a very distinctive blue dun cast to the body, with a reddish brown showing at the tail end of the body. This would account for the red thread shown through on the Iron Blue pattern. Also, the thorax and head had a reddish brown color, and he legs were very pale gray. With that said, variation from region to region and stream to stream is always the case.

Mark

[William Anderson]

Otter, you'll have to remind me again of where you are. (or include it in your profile to the right...hint). I'm sure you would like to get back to your beatis question, unless you think the paralept is the right direction.

I've seen both the adaptiva and the mollis. The size 18 paralepts that I encounter in PA are a dark brown, almost maroon with medium dun wings. I have caught and kept several. I dont know what species the purple and snipe were designed for in the UK, but here it seems an approximation as the purple silk turns almost black...but not quite when wet. The other pattern that I've shown with the mole over burgandy silk looks about right with the silk showing through prominently. I dont know.

Thomas Ames is a tremendous help when your at the vise. Love his books.

w