FLYMPH FORUM

I just posted this under a subject of one of Willam Anderson's great flies but I thought it worthy of expanded discussion like the popular Artistic Jazz Flies that Willowhead started.

William Anderson wrote: I sincerely appreciate your comments. Everyone's comments, actually. I honestly enjoy an honest critique as much as a compliment. I only commented about the photography because I do fear the risk of having a few folks hesitate to post a pic or sharing if they are concerned about their photography skills or even their tying. It would be a shame to miss out on a larger group of participants. I hope readers find this forum very encouraging as well as thoughtfully insightful. I know it is that. (and here I am wishing I could share a thought with one sentence rather than five. )

Any comments or suggestions to help me improve my tying or photography are sincerely appreciated. I just appreciate the feedback. I asked everyone to be nice, you were that in spades.
w


William I truely love the participation of Hans and other gifted experts (both tyers and photographers) on this site and I think it might be nice to add another Forum heading like The Art of the Wet Fly so members who want to post as an artistic exercise beyond a mere fly dressing post can exhibit their work and the viewing public can see it discused in that light. It would also provide a common area for discusion about the technical aspects of improving our "fly studios", backgrounds, lighting, color control, camera controls, and editing. It could be a place for discussion of the finer points of flies presented to please fishermen rather than those tied just to please fish. IMO there is artistry at work in both camps but the focus may be different. Someday I will get a DSLR to enjoy the finer points of the artstic presentation beyond my point and shoot.

Roadkill wrote:William I truly love the participation of Hans and other gifted experts (both tyers and photographers) on this site and I think it might be nice to add another Forum heading like The Art of the Wet Fly so members who want to post as an artistic exercise beyond a mere fly dressing post can exhibit their work and the viewing public can see it discussed in that light. It would also provide a common area for discussion about the technical aspects of improving our "fly studios", backgrounds, lighting, color control, camera controls, and editing. It could be a place for discussion of the finer points of flies presented to please fishermen rather than those tied just to please fish. IMO there is artistry at work in both camps but the focus may be different. Someday I will get a DSLR to enjoy the finer points of the artistic presentation beyond my point and shoot.

roadkill,

While I understand and appreciate the suggestion as stated, I would like to put this to you - and I am purposefully restricting it to my own offerings:

I tie flies for fishing, first and foremost. I need to feel/believe that any of the flies I post are exactly that - fishing flies, working flies, in their DNA.

I also try to tie each to the best of my ability, and to present them here in my chosen (documentary style) format, again to the best of my ability. I do not engage, I believe, in any of the flies I post to this forum in "an artistic exercise beyond a mere flydressing post". Truth be told I very very rarely venture into the area of 'artistic exercise' in my tying. I have great respect for those who engage in ultra-realistic tying, it is just not my interest. I have great respect for those who engage in full dressed salmon flies, and have indeed dabbled in this upon occasion, but again it has not my interest. Simple fishing flies are my interest, and that is what I tie, fish, and yes, post.

So my question to you is - given the above, and in the event your proposal for a new "Art of the Wet Fly" forum were to be implemented, where would you suggest I should post my flies?

Cheers,
Hans W

This is a very good conversation to have. I would like to comment more later, but for now I think the idea of having an additional forum heading where photography issues and technical questions about setup, lighting, etc. could be discussed is worth considering. I greatly appreciate, and greatly benefited from, the photography tips others have shared on the forum, but it did take some time clicking around to find much of it. There is a lot that everyone can learn and share about wingless wets and one should not be hesitant about posting pictures, whether of flies, fish, materials, insects, etc., and sharing that information simply due to their current photo skills. Pretty certain everyone here would be happy to help in any way possible.

Howdy All;

My thoughts are that the forumula that has made and kept this forum
as outstanding as it is works.
I am a firm believer in keeping things simple as they are less likely to crash and burn,
get out-of-hand, spiral out of control ... however one wishes to express that action.

Why can't the 'Artistic Wets' (That has to be an oxymoron ... doubt seriously if
they'll get anywhere close to water ... ), be shown (in all their glory), on the 'Jazz Flys'
thread as I suppose they would be dressed up like A Mummers Fancy Div. Band for the annual
parade.

http://phillymummers.com/fancies.htm

The part about improving photo skills I think has been handled well by Ray (Letumgo), in the
reference section.....maybe a thread heading ?????

Yes, I am resistant to change. I feel that if something isn't broken it won't need not be tinkered with
and it should not require a repair bill.

That's about all I've got to say here about this

hank

Or maybe make "References" a forum heading? Or in the "Reference Materials" heading give a short description of what viewers could expect to find there, such as: materials sources, photography tips, history of wingless wets, etc.?

First,
I would not make any changes to the forum as it stands. Our Fly Dressings section does a decent job at showcasing our contributors and their talent, I feel.

Hans,
While you may very well be tying flies to be fished, doing it to the best of your ability, there is STILL a certain amount of creativity and artistic expression taking place every time you post a "New" fly. The combination of materials and how materials are used-especially if used in a different way-make the fly an artistic creation. Despite the fact that flies are utilitarian, they do exhibit all the aspects of a piece of art--Shape, Line, Color, Texture and in this case Dimension. Tying is a form of soft sculpture,there is no denying it. The hook, as we have said many times, is the basis. In sculpture vocabulary, it is called the armature. This is ART especially when innovative tiers, like we have here, use their creative minds at the vise. Welcome to the artistic world, Mr. Weilenmann. Glad you are with us.

Mark

If I am looking to a fly pattern for it's content and technique, a crisp clear photograph of the fly without background distractions in my opinion is the best way to view such. To do that well is an art in itself. A well tied fly is a work of art.

On the other hand, flies presented in a unique and interesting setting that complement the fly color and design is most enjoyable to view but is a different genre. The image then becomes about the whole, all that is contained in the frame. The Principles of Design and Composition become important aspects of the photograph to make it work as a whole. It becomes Art of Photography with the main subject The Fly.

I would hope that no one would be intimidated by good fly pix or good tying and not post. We all learn from everyone's ties no matter the skill level of ties or photographs. This is after all a share and learn forum.

Fran

Soft-hackle wrote:First,
I would not make any changes to the forum as it stands. Our Fly Dressings section does a decent job at showcasing our contributors and their talent, I feel.

Mark,

Works for me.

Cheers,
Hans W

I really enjoy seeing all the flies and different ties all the forum members can come up with. All in their own right are works and forms of art, all are tied on a hook and therefore are capable of being cast to and taking fish. This is regardless of skill level

I have flies here behind glass and mounted in shadow boards, some by sought after tiers with so much more talent than I. I could bust these flies out, tie them to a tippet and fish with them, or I can continue to enjoy them as they are..... art forms and examples of others work, not only to be enjoyed by myself but also by visitors that enjoy the same pure enjoyment of appreciating the tiers talent.

This last month I have had a partner recovering from a rather extensive medical procedure, hosted two American fishers (one being one of those renown tiers I am in awe of) and an Australian fisher. Truth be known between that and work I have just been too dang busy to tie or post any of my lower level offerings taken with a low grade camera, but that will change over the coming months.
One of the most heart warming things of the past month was to have a gifted tier hand me a small fishermans friend tin that held some flies for me to keep made from materials I gathered here in NZ and sent to the States, to be assembled and tied there and then returned to me. That is not why I send materials, but it was a really nice gesture.

I guess what I am trying to say here is that within this forum (and others) there are people of higher status in life than I, people of more wealth, much better tiers and way better photographers! I get that and do not deny it.
The common thing that brings us all together is the forum and it's content. Where else can I comment on, with or be commented by renown tiers from all over the world? When somebody who ties flies I have admired for years comments positivly on one of my humble offerings it lifts my confidence and sence of pride no end, indeed challenging me to do better next time.
The best way for both my photography and tying skill to improve is to do more of it!

Whilst it would be nice at times to have several of the major players here have their flies "grouped" into one section for reference and referal means..... it is also nice to be able to post alongside them and have them comment and critique.

Hans Weilenmann wrote: roadkill,

While I understand and appreciate the suggestion as stated, I would like to put this to you - and I am purposefully restricting it to my own offerings:

I tie flies for fishing, first and foremost. I need to feel/believe that any of the flies I post are exactly that - fishing flies, working flies, in their DNA.

I also try to tie each to the best of my ability, and to present them here in my chosen (documentary style) format, again to the best of my ability. I do not engage, I believe, in any of the flies I post to this forum in "an artistic exercise beyond a mere flydressing post". Truth be told I very very rarely venture into the area of 'artistic exercise' in my tying. I have great respect for those who engage in ultra-realistic tying, it is just not my interest. I have great respect for those who engage in full dressed salmon flies, and have indeed dabbled in this upon occasion, but again it has not my interest. Simple fishing flies are my interest, and that is what I tie, fish, and yes, post.

So my question to you is - given the above, and in the event your proposal for a new "Art of the Wet Fly" forum were to be implemented, where would you suggest I should post my flies?

Cheers,
Hans W

Hans

Given the quality of your tying as well as the quality of your photography, I would suggest that you post wherever you choose! However I suggest that taking a photo or presenting an image of simple fishing flies can be an Artistic endeavor, for example Old Hat's backgrounds or Izaak's fruit fly holders.
For me a watershed example in the change of fly photography from some tiny example to the clarity of flies as works of art came with the publication of the The Art of the Fly in 1988.


I am not suggesting that we expand the wingless wet to include "Realistic tying" or Atlantic Salmon, or any other genre. I am merely positing that many of the excellent photography skill discussions that enhance a viewers appreciation of a fly are lost to many of the viewers new and old on this site under subject titles like Wire Bodied 1250's. This site gets more expansive daily in the existing forums with 50 pages to date of fly dressing subjects alone. IMO the experience you have in taking thousands of simple fishing fly photos and the points of view of others about how to best capture or display the image of simple fishing flies would be easier to find in a new Forum. The entire reference section posting on photography has 8 responses, and you have to look to Links, then Reference to find that. I think it is typical that that many posts on the subject can be found almost any time in the body of some other discussion about member fly presentations. Similarly your excellent tying videos might be easier for viewers to find and enjoy in a clearly defined location on this Forum.


Just my opinion, happy feather bending everyone.