Overload

[Otter]

I have just read Boris's thread that has been locked and probably should keep my size elevens on the ground and my mouth shut - but i fear I cannot do so.
My contributions here have descended into bouts of fiction, tales for Hank to read with his coffee etc.... and I have asked myself why ?

The answer is quite simple really, I have become bored at the incessant lists of many flys that are meaningless to me. There is a lack of debate and robust discussion. This is inevitable when a forum matures .

as Hank might say , im all internetted out

I am of to a virtual Tibet and take my leave ... if at some point in the future I have anything meaningful to contribute I will do so.

norm

[Hans Weilenmann]

Hi norm,

This forum has a number of parts - this one happens to be called Fly Dressings. I think it is not unreasonable to expect to see, well, flies and their recipes?

What am I missing?

Cheers,
Hans W

[Mataura mayfly]

Why dear Otter, why? Because it entertained more than just Hank.
You may feel there has been a lack of robust discussion, I feel there has been a bit. Debates have been interesting and maybe a little one sided- but they were there.
I believe it is a seasonal thing.
Most all of the forum members are Northern Hemisphere dwellers awaiting the lifting of ole man Winter and all the dreary woes that go with him. What has a frustrated flympher to do when the seasons conspire to thwart thoughts of fishing- he (or she) ties flies and shares them with their forum friends.
Come Spring, followed by a beautiful (I hope for you all) Summer and some of our friends being able to get to the water and reacquaint with the fishes they love to seduce with all of the Winters tying offerings, maybe the posts of thread subjects will change.
I have done what little I can to produce the odd subject away from tying and tried to concentrate on the fishing and scenery I am lucky enough to have near at my front door (something most Kiwis take for granted), but I am not blessed with great fishing skill, photographic prowess, nor literary talent and alas the seasons are a changing here to shorter/colder days with the river season due to close here in a matter of days. I am quite surprised that no debates have sprung from my preference of glass rods for wet fly fishing. I guess they are more accepted in the States? Here I often get laughed near off the water if discovered using that old fashioned gear Granddad must have left me by the fast graphite set.

For me, to be a member here is a little like getting on a plane and being able to visit with fishers and tiers from afar, experiencing new ideas and sharing a knowledge base that without this forum (or indeed the Internet) I would never be lucky enough to experience in real life.
When I have been lucky enough to travel, people think me a little strange, as what seems mundane and everyday to them is new and exciting for me. I guess a little of the same happens for me when I visit here. Living in a fairly secluded and somewhat narrow minded little corner of the World of fishing and tying, most all of the content here is of interest to me.

Norm, if there is anything I can do to entice you back to regular forum visits please let me know. In the meanwhile, enjoy virtual Tibet and check back when you feel the need.

[Otter]

Hi norm,

This forum has a number of parts - this one happens to be called Fly Dressings. I think it is not unreasonable to expect to see, well, flies and their recipes?

What am I missing?

Cheers,
Hans W

Hans you are not missing anything at all. Nothing is unreasonable , nor is any individidual's opinion/contribution worth more than anothers.
I was about to post something on boris's thread only to find it locked.

I fully subcribe to the school of thought that the greatest attribute of most anglers is a willingness to share and this Forum above many others has exemplified this spirit - and that is largely down to the dignity and vision of Mark Libertone. I have always been cognisant of the origins of this forum, its limited focus and the pride many of our American friends here have in the historical development of these types of flies.

I understood that "Flymphs" came into being as being a specific style to imitate quite specific stages of development of a trouts prey and that interested me greatly. Yet the relevance of this small but vital detail seems to have become diluted and in danger of being lost. Mike use of blunt force is clearly unsuited to this or any forum and his incessant long posts clearly upset a lot of people. While his delivery may appear confrontational and not in the spirit of the forum - if there is a huge gulf between his opinions, on the purpose of Flymphs/Softhackles/Spidrs/Wingless Wets and of the opinions of other members then there is seriously something wrong somewhere.

I look at the enthusiasm of the posts of Jeff (matura) and some of the great posts of Dubbn etc... and I find that the enthusiasm that I once had has all but disappeared. That is the reason why I am heading for Tibet. I have nothing to contribute of a positive nature and without positivity....... time to recharge the batteries.

[William Anderson]

Norman, and everyone else feeling a sense of overload at the moment, I just wanted to say that I appreciate the level of discourse and civility typically found here. The most recent manner of discussion in various threads was just too far beyond what is acceptable here. Robust discussion, disagreement and outright passion are certainly a part of what makes these conversations interesting. But always with civility and respect and always with the intention of sharing among friends. I noted earlier that this is an enjoyable place to be. It will remain so.

On a sad note, Mike chose to remove himself permanently from this forum in a post that I found inappropriate and distracting. I removed it. He had a great deal to offer and could at times bring out the best in our discussions, moving topics in interesting ways. His departure is a disappointment.

Norman, I find your participation here unique and essential and would hate to see you slip away for long. See Tibet, and then please return with a full stream report. We'll all be looking forward to it.

w

[hankaye]

Otter, Howdy;

You will be missed. Take care in your journey, study all the streams you come upon
and please come back refreshed. Your stories will be missed by many more than myself.
The insights that you were able to incorperate into your tails were not overlooked.
I the US Navy there is an expression used, "May you have fair winds and following seas."

hank & Rascal (oorp)

[Ron Eagle Elk]

Otter,

I took a similar short trip to Tibet just last week. My Tibet is a small stream here called the Deschutes (no, not the one in Oregon) that has a few Sea Run Cutthroat left in it and resident Cutthroat trout in it. A 7'6" 4 weight bamboo rod made by my late friend, John Channer, a new Cadno Silk line spooled on a Bill Ballan reel and a fly box full of a winters tying of wingless wets were my travel companions.. I lost track of time and stayed on the river much later than I expected. Fish were tempted, hook and brought to hand, an Osprey was watched, a Kingfisher scolded me and I left the stream tired, hungry and thirsty. That short trip relit the fire for me.

Hopefully your trip will be as beneficial for your soul as mine was for me. I also hope it will be short as I read and thoroughly enjoy your stories.

[Soft-hackle]

Norm,
We sometime have to deal with problems like this, and I believe we can continue in the manner I intended this forum to operate under. Don't give up on us.

Mark

[Otter]

Norm,
We sometime have to deal with problems like this, and I believe we can continue in the manner I intended this forum to operate under. Don't give up on us.

Mark

Just in case there is a perception that I am taking a break because of what transpired with Mike, recent issues have but a minor part to play in my decision.
Though I agree with much of what Mike has to say and would like to see debate and discussion on such topics , I fear the gulf in understanding and knowledge between possible participants is too great and inevitably leads to rancour and negativity. I want no part in that.

it is more to do with the fact that I am not really enjoying participating as I have little to say or offer that is new, exillarating or fresh. A bit like going to the pub with the same crew for too long - everyone telling the same stories over and over again. A little bit of love is nice , too much is overpowering, if you know what I mean.

I wish you all well, particlularly you Mark and when the passion returns so will I.

norman

[daringduffer]

... , I fear the gulf in understanding and knowledge between possible participants is too great and inevitably leads to rancour and negativity. I want no part in that.

This difference in understanding and knowledge is a good reason for discussion and ought not in itself lead to rancour and negativity. My experience is that it is how you take on a discussion -and what your intentions are - that might lead to controversy or confrontation. Robust discussion is easier face-to-face. On the net this is more difficult. Experience shows over and over that one has to be careful in choosing words if the outcome is of importance.

Passion is wonderful. Take care, Norman Schwarzenegger!

dd