FLYMPH FORUM

Hi All,

Thought I’d introduce myself, I didn’t know where to post this so hopefully it’s not in the wrong place?

I live in Sydney Australia, been tying flies for 15+yrs and making bamboo rods for 2.5yrs. I mainly fish for trout and try to get to the south island NZ at least once a year.

I am a complete newbie to tying wingless wets and was put onto this site by a member on another forum who initially inspired me to tie soft hackles.

After my first attempt and some feedback this is my second crack at it and I would love to get some advise?

For this particular pattern I am finding it difficult to tie off the peacock herl (2-3 turns) without getting an unsightly thread build up or at least the thread showing. You’ll see what I mean in the 1st pic, I am happier with the 2nd go at it. Any suggestions?

Keeping the hackle clean with no thread showing through is proving to be a bit of a challenge. I am tying off the hackle with 3 thread turns and winding 3-4 turns forward through the hackle to reinforce it as suggested in Dave Hughes book. Do any of you do this or is this where I am coming unstuck?

Sorry for waffling on, I look forward to contributing to the forum in future when my soft hackle tying improves.

Unsightly head/thread prob



Happy with this one

Hi Fly Fischa.
Looks like you nailed the second fly , the first fly is really nice actually.
A suggestion, which looks like you may have found, is to tie your peacock off starting at or close to the point of where your hackle winds will start and securing thread turns back towards where you want your hackle turns to end. This will work if you are winding your hackle back towards the thorax rather then forward to the eye of the hook.
Fantastic flies!
Jim

Welcome aboard fly_fisha! Glad you found this site. As far as the flies, I think they are both excellent. I agree with you that the second one is a little closer to the "cosmetic ideal". I like the look of the thorax being closer to the head of the fly. I am guessing that there are only a few thread wraps difference between the two flies. The main thing I try to do with those last few wraps is to be very stingy with them. In other words, use as few wraps as you can get away with. When tying off the herl, you can probably get away with only two or three wraps to secure the herl. Once the herl is secured, clip it off and leave the silk thread in the same location. Next wrap the hackle back towards the thorax. After one or two wraps of hackle, wrap the silk thread forward through the hackle and clip off the excess hackle. Whip finish a neat head (three to five wraps only) and clip off the thread. After you have done it a few times you will get a feel for the distance needed for the hackle and the head.

The next time you start one of these flies, when you mount the thread on the hook make four thread wraps right behind the eye of the hook and stop. Make a mental note of that distance and use that as your target for where the front of the thorax will end and hackle will be wrapped to.

Hope this helps. I've seen your tying on the Fly Tying Forum, so I know you know your stuff. This is just a few pointers that may help you consistently create your second fly. From a fishes point of view, I doubt the flies look different.

A variation to what you have already figured out, is to finish your thread body, then tie in your hackle, dull side up and extending out over the eye of the hook. Now, please note that you will need to leave enough bare hook shaft "in front of your thread, to later, add the head of the fly!
From here, I then add the peacock, (typically two or three, depending on the size of the fly!), securing them in the same manner as the hackle! As you do so, end your thread at the "front edge" of your floss body! then wrap the peacock, back to the thread, final wrap to the bottom side of the hook. Then counter wrap, forwards, with the thread, in open turns to secure. Note, first, keep the peacock in flat turns, avoiding over lapping it to control for the bulk that you want! Secondly, the thread, as its wrapped, will reinforce the peacock!
If you stop the thread right in front edge of the peacock, you can reinforce your hackle in much the same way! With all materials secured in this manner, you can get by with the smallest of thread heads, is you so choose!
CLEAR AS MUD? Take it one step at a time! Its easy and makes for a durable fly!
FliTrap

Now that's too close.... in the timing of our posts, Mike!
and almost the same ideas! Scares me! is there any hope?

FliTrap

Thanks for the welcome and great advise, I can't wait to get home from work and have a go. I might even post some of the results to see if I am getting any closer to the mark.

Fancy bumping into you here Ray thanks for putting me onto this great forum buddy and for all your help. I haven't had a chance to look at everyones work here but from what I've seen I am blown away and realise I have a lot to learn. I guess half the fun is in the journey, learning new things and meeting more flytyaholics.

Welcome! Nice introduction. It would be hard to add to the advice you've been given. As a newbie, those are really nicely tied. The one thing that I might add, and it took me a while to figure out is that in tying these is that when selecting your material you have to really look at the proportions of every element. To me...personal, and probably on aesthetic, is that the peacock is a large strand, giving a robust thorax. To me selecting a peacock herl with shorter barb (or is it a flue?) and a smaller stem will give you a thorax that will create a smaller thorax, which again is only a personal preference. This is one of the occasions where having the entire feather to choose from is best, as opposed to buying the strung peacock package with pretty consistent sized strands.

Now having said that, I'm going to look at Hans' site and find that I'm way off base.

w

fly-fisha,

Just curious here - did you use a single herl, or multiple herls, for the thorax?

When you tied off the herl(s), can you describe in a bit more detail how you approached that - specifically whether the tag end pointed towards the eye or the bend?

I am tying off the hackle with 3 thread turns and winding 3-4 turns forward through the hackle to reinforce it as suggested in Dave Hughes book. Do any of you do this or is this where I am coming unstuck?

I suggest you do a single tight turn, or two max, to trap the hackle tip.

With the sparse hackle in these wingless wets/spider/flymphs/softhackles winding 3-4 turns of thread through the hackle to get from thorax to eye is, quite frankly, ridiculous advice. It takes one turn, or less, to cut through. Try it...

Thanks,
Hans W

Thanks again for all the helpful info.
Hans - In regards to the peacock herl.
It's a single strand of green peacock selected from near the eye, tied in by the base not tip of the feather, depending on which side of the eye the feather is selected from the herl is wound forward either clockwise or anticlockwise in touching turns so that the flue faces forward toward the eye of the hook. This is the way 'Noel Jetson' tied his version of the 'Red Tag' as a dry fly. The effect you end up with is a full herl hackle in a nice tapered conical shape. I then tied the herl off with 2 thread wraps with the herl facing forward toward the eye and underneath the hook. Here’s a link to a red tag dry I tied on another forum where the effect is a bit clearer.(Hope this doesn’t terminate my memebership here ) http://www.flytyingforum.com/pattern8457.html

I agree on the 3-4 turns of thread through the hackle sounding ridiculous as I was struggling to make it work. Sure it will end up being a more durable fly, but if I manage to catch a few fish on a fly and it’s a bit worse off for wear it’s served its purpose. You can see my first attempts on this link where the thread at the thorax is more obvious. http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=47348

You’ve all been really helpful guys and I’ve learnt a lot, so thank you.

Kartsten,

Single herl is good. The herl tie-off wrap(s) should be under the space which the hackle turns, and I would suggest the last wrap of herl is brought around the front of the thread, then angled back a little. The first turn of thread immediately provides a positive locking turn, with the herl tag pointing away from the eye.

Cheers,
Hans W