FLYMPH FORUM

As Boris asked in a related thread, what are the quintessential North Country Spiders and what are the most common materials used. I'll open with the observation that this thread could easily veer off into defining what is and what is not a North Country Spider, the history and development of their use or how recent interpretations and presentations come into play. At least for the first several posts, we can just offer what we find to be the basics.

For me the quintessential NCS is the Partridge and Orange. The orange being Pearsall's silk. I think most would agree that while the records of these flies go back a few hundred years, the use even further, T. E. Pritt (1886) did a nice job of compiling a list from older sources and while his list only records a moment in time (the time of his publication) the list is a good one, especially if you're new to the subject. Here's a link to that list. http://www.williamsfavorite.com/te-pritt-1886.html It may only confuse the question if you're looking for a short list of quentessentials, but it will offer a good idea of the most common materials used.

w

If I was taking one of those tests where the guy or gal says "I am going to say a phrase, you just answer with the first thing that comes to mind".

"North Country Spider"................."Snipe and Purple"

Then partridge and orange.....then stewart's spider.........then partridge and yellow.....then partridge and green.....then........

Interesting. I agree that the Orange and Partridge is a fine example of the North Country Spider, and probably the one most recognized by the most fly fishers. I have a row of them in my box. If I were to take a word association test for NCS, the first thing out of my mouth would be Pritt's Water Cricket (Number 1 on his list). I prefer it dressed with primrose silk lightly waxed with cobbler's wax and ribbed with black on a size 14 2 X Short hook. I've used the Plover hackle, but have better results with starling hackle. I fish in western Washington State and have to fish on many overcast days. The BWO are kind enough to hatch on those days about 11:00 AM. The Pritt's Water Cricket is eagerly taken as a BWO emerger by our coastal cutthroat. I fish it so much, I use it as my avatar.

Ron Eagle Elk wrote:Interesting. I agree that the Orange and Partridge is a fine example of the North Country Spider, and probably the one most recognized by the most fly fishers. I have a row of them in my box. If I were to take a word association test for NCS, the first thing out of my mouth would be Pritt's Water Cricket (Number 1 on his list). I prefer it dressed with primrose silk lightly waxed with cobbler's wax and ribbed with black on a size 14 2 X Short hook. I've used the Plover hackle, but have better results with starling hackle. I fish in western Washington State and have to fish on many overcast days. The BWO are kind enough to hatch on those days about 11:00 AM. The Pritt's Water Cricket is eagerly taken as a BWO emerger by our coastal cutthroat. I fish it so much, I use it as my avatar.

The canonical ones, to me, are (using Pritt's nomenclature):

Orange Partridge (aka Partridge and Orange)
Dark Snipe (aka Snipe and Purple)
Waterhen Bloa
Little Dark Watchet
Light Spanish Needle
Greentail (grannom)

If I were forced to fish one fly only for the rest of my life, it would be an Orange Partridge.

I'd have to agree with Bob's list and his choice of the Orange Partridge as the one to fish above all others. The Waterhen Bloa and Dark Snipe are iconic and the Dark Watchett is a personal favorite. My feeling is that the anglers and fly dressers during the "Golden Age" were just as smitten with patterns as we are, but just like us relied on a few favorites. After all, the "best" fly is the one you have the most confidence in!

If I may point out one thing, two things actually, its the size and style of hook used. Modern taste tends towards a shorter, larger hook, while almost all of the original flys I've seen are on small (16 and smaller) standard length, usually sneck bend, hooks. After many years of using Spiders, my own preference leans towards this formula. I'll keep the lid on this can of worms; just saying what works for me! I'd love to see either Partridge or Belvoirdale do a modern sneck in small sizes. I've brought it up with Marl Hamnett and Graham Maisey and both say they could do it. I'll keep leaning on them! In the meantime, the TMC 3769 is darn hard to beat.........

For those who will be coming to the Rendezvous, I'll be bringing a selection of original Spiders tied by Mr. Walbran Cooper and dated 1880. WC was a contemporary and neighbor of Pritt and the flies are in pristine condition.

Our tying styles have changed (I'm hesitant to say "evolved") over the years, but it's a testiment to the strength and relevency of the traditional patterns that we can still have as much confidence in the old patterns as our predecessors did a century and a half ago!

The hooks that Graham Maisey sells are no longer being made due to the death of the man who made them. It's a shame because they are great hooks: http://www.belvoirdale.com/Hooks.html. Bill

wsbailey wrote:The hooks that Graham Maisey sells are no longer being made due to the death of the man who made them. It's a shame because they are great hooks: http://www.belvoirdale.com/Hooks.html. Bill

Are you saying they are no longer making the Gaelic Hooks? or a certain style?

Interesting question you ask on Boris' behalf William. One to which there will be a different answer by each forum member no doubt.

To me, quintessential in a spider pattern is more what I have read and learnt more than what I tie or fish. True North Country spider patterns were never that popular of a pattern here and it is mainly through reading and research that the patterns have become common to me.
The partridge and orange would have to be first and foremost on my list, mainly because it is often the first one mentioned in script or shown in plate illustrations of the older British volumes I have. It just seems to be "the" spider most often mentioned in both classic and modern articles when referring to the style. Never having the "proper" Pearsall silk number and often finding it hard to find good partridge hackle here it is a pattern I have not spent a lot of time with at the vice.
Number two would have to be the snipe and purple. This one I do tie, although I must admit to using a starling hackle often as it is a lot easier to obtain here than snipe. I did bring some snipe wings back from Northern Ireland though, so genuine patterns are possible for me now. A supply of genuine Pearsall silk from bigjimsflyco also helps.
The snipe and purple is the only genuine spider pattern I have seen suggested for the Mataura river in written script and as a lot of our Mayfly nymphs are quite dark in colouration and small in size I can relate to the suggested use here.

When G.D Hamilton visited NZ in the very early parts of last century and wrote the book "Trout Fishing & Sport in Maoriland" (1904) he suggested you could get by in NZ with just five flies. Red hackle, hare's ear, black hackle, black spider and hare's ear spider.
In the dressings given in text, only the black spider could be derived as being North Country style with just the two materials and suggestion of a slim body profile. However, upon turning the page and viewing the colour plate of the five patterns, the two spider patterns are very heavily hackled. The black well through the thorax and the hare's ear almost a full body palmer style.
Perhaps if Mr Hamilton had suggested the use of slim profile flies with a sparse hackle the North Country spiders may have gotten more of a grounding here?

Thanks for starting this thread William and the other posters for contributing.

The link to your page with NCS listed is helpful, many of them I've never heard of let alone seen examples. I did some searches through google and found links to tubes & photos on many of those in the list and found that there are as many interpretations of these flies as there are fisherman!

I eventually found William's gallery from the list page and saw many of the patterns that are listed. They are nice patterns and again really simple. Just curious, is the thread rib wound counter clock wise an original feature of these pattens or added for durability?

Anyway, I'm keen to see how others tie some of these quintessential NCS. I've seen Hans' partridge and orange below, very nice fly and really neat looking, not a hair out of place!

Cheers

Old Hat wrote:

wsbailey wrote:The hooks that Graham Maisey sells are no longer being made due to the death of the man who made them. It's a shame because they are great hooks: http://www.belvoirdale.com/Hooks.html. Bill

Are you saying they are no longer making the Gaelic Hooks? or a certain style?

Here's the whole story: http://www.redditchadvertiser.co.uk/new ... his_tools/

Bill