FLYMPH FORUM

Looking for a little help here, I have a good introductoy amount of Gossamers silk thread/floss and wonder how everyone is applying and using this stuff. You see tying classic winged wet flies and Salmon flies I have always used my hands. For wet flies I use Danville floss and apply with my hands that are smoothed with an emeory board and for Salmon flies I use Japanese silk floss and where a pair of silk gloves. I just recently read some where else that I should use a midge bobbin because this will handle the spools of Gossamers Silk thread. Is that true????? secondly, what brand of bobbin is preferred? All my years of tying I never used a bobbin for floss. I just want to make sure I got this right before I go out and look for one or two and buy them.

Thanks
Andy Brasko

Hi,
I use the matarelli midge bobbin holder, for Pearsall's silk thread for tying the classic North Country soft hackle flies. It is stainless steel as opposed to ceramic, but very well made and doesn't snag. Not cheap, but i find it lovely to work with, a real pleasure.

Never used a bobbin holder for floss though.... but having said that, don't use floss that much.

Andrew.

Andy,

Really glad to see you here. I think the Pearsall's Gossamer is more thread than floss, at least as your used to thinking about floss. It's more like tying with Danville's Flymaster. It will untwist to lay flat or cord up nicely. Therefore, using a bobbin to apply this thread is completely okay. My bobbin of choice is one made by Wasatch Tools. Very nice bobbin with a ceramic tube. Smaller than normal, so it fits my hands rather well.

Part of the enjoyment for me is using Pearsall's with the different tying waxes that are available to alter the appearance and even color of the silk thread. It's also nice to use the same materials (as close as possible anyway) as the gentlemen and ladies of yore.

REE

I use a bobbin also for the Pearsall's Gossamer silk thread (not the floss). I use a Griffin Ceramic Bobbin. The silk thread can fray but not nearly as easy as flosses do. I almost always wax the thread very well with as Ron said different types of wax. I really work it in well to the thread. Leisenring in the Art of Tying the Wet Fly really makes a point of waxing the thread mostly for durability purposes. He felt the waxed thread melded some what to the hook and created a durable base to tie the fly on. The waxed thread also really grabs materials when tying them in. In describing finishing the head of the fly, he mentions having to pick off pieces of wax that were squeezed out of the thread after whip finishing. This will tell you a bit about how much wax he was applying. I also twist and and untwist the silk thread quite a bit for different purposes. You probably already know, but, it is a 3 strand thread that is slightly twisted in a counter clockwise direction, opposite of most threads. I dub a lot of my bodies by untwisting the thread and fitting in the dubbing then twisting it up again. This has a very nice dubbing effect and alllows you to still see the thread through the dubbing and complement the colors together as Leisenring and Hidy describe as important in the fly's mimicry and translucency. It is also very handing when tying smaller flies as it uses a 2/3 less thread than forming a dubbing loop.



Carl

I use the Wasatch ceramic bobbin designed for these smaller spools of silk thread (Gossamer only). I wind silk floss by hand to avoid the twists as much as possible. Regular floss will work, but I tend to use traditional silk because of how it appears after the material becomes wet (more translucent). There is a noticeable and predictable color shift when using silk tying thread, or floss material. Non-silk flosses tend to have less of a change in color (which can be good or bad, depending on what you wish to achieve with the finished fly). Play around with materials and methods and make up your own mind. Experimentation is half the fun for me. When I want to tye and fish in the most with the most historical methods, I use Pearsall's silks.

Hi Andy,
For Gossamer Silk tying thread, I have a ceramic Wasatch Bobbin. This works very well. I use beeswax to wax the section I first cast onto the hook with. This helps it grab the hook and stay put. Many tiers, as you have seen, use this to make silk bodies. They use it well waxed and unwaxed. Like you, when using flosses, A pair of gloves are in order to prevent fraying, but I've also had some success using a material clip as well.

For bodies, Leisenring liked buttonhole twist, which is actually a sewing thread of heavier weight than Gossamer. It was used to sew around buttonholes. Regular silk sewing thread would also work and they have less of a tendency to fray, but give wonderful results. Pearsall does make a tying floss "Marabou Floss". Again I feel gloves are needed for this.

Myself, When I tie silk bodies I do not wax the thread UNLESS the recipe specifically calls for it. Some patterns do. Now, on the Tups "Nymph" Leisenring ties, he recommends Buttonhole Twist for the abdomen section of the fly, which is tied for half the body. The other half is a dubbing of half red and half yellow seal. There is no mention of waxing the twist and he specifies that NO TYING THREAD is wrapped under the abdomen. He claimed, as Ray has stated, that once the silk got wet it became more translucent when tied in this manner. To me, this is very important because it gives some insight as to how Leisenring tied this fly. Following his procedure, he'd tie the hackle on first, wrap the thread down half way, tie on the twist leaving the tying thread at that point on the shank, wrap the twist down the shank and back to the tying thread to tie it off. Remove excess, then complete the fly fashioning the thorax, wrapping the hackle and finishing the head.

If you look around, you will find places that sell silk sewing threads in heavier weights which will work very nicely for tying bodies. Buttonhole twist is a bit heavy for my liking, but I untwist it and use one strand of it.

Look at this Tups:



This is tied using yellow silk sewing thread Size A manufactured by Botticelli many years ago. I still have a couple spools of this stuff. If you can locate something similar, it'd be well worth it. It was tied as Leisenring described, no tying thread under the abdomen. The dubbing is a mix of half red half yellow seal. Then I mix in an amount equal to this mixture of pale tan hare's mask to soften it. Try looking at Kreinik Threads. Gutermann is another name that comes to mind.

Mark

Very nice Mark,
Didn't Pearsall's make a thread called 'Naples'? That is pretty close to button hole twist. I have some somewhere so I must did it out and see.

Yes, Philip,
I did some searching. Pearsall's Naples Silk is heavier, and may be perfect for bodies. I'll have to try some myself. I believe this would be about 4/0. I'm not sure if this would be to heavy to my liking or not. The silk thread I have is sewing size A and to me is prefect. I believe the Naples is used for rod building, but I think it'd work for silk bodies. Not sure how many colors are available.

Here's another silk sewing product I have to look into:

http://www.clover-usa.com/products/69433/Threads



Mark

I've been using this silk thread lately, too.

http://www.roserushbrooke.com/yli-silk-thread-1.html

Joe

Looks good, Joe.

Mark