Tip vs stem practise.

[daringduffer]

Tonight I've been tying som Endrick spiders. They are supposed to be most killing flies but I've yet to fish one. Our member Scotfly has a SBS herehttp://ukflydressing.proboards.com/inde ... 414&page=1.

Anothe SBS http://www.fishingthefly.co.uk/forum/in ... pic=2645.0

This one tied by member Bob Smith (at least from his site). http://www.northcountryflies.com/north- ... /1-ES.html Have a look at the other flies on that site!

Another one, tied by Alice Conba, can be seen here.http://www.weizterfish.com/forum/showth ... -heavy!%29 Take notice of her typical length of tail. (Makes me remember the old thread about tying style). Her tyings can also be viewed in the light of the discussion about proportions.

While tying them I used both methods just discussed, and have to say that those tied stem first and with one side stripped came out most acceptable. Another thing I noticed was that Danville's Flymaster was more easily frayed on the metallic tinsel than Pearsall's gossamer. That was not what I had expected. I have not been using Flymaster for years. Might be a reason for this.

dd

[Jerry G]

DD regarding some of the earlier conversations here, tip versus butt tie in and the use of silk and conservative wraps I had to wonder. Stems on game birds seem to most all graduate in size rather fast from tip to butt. Would it not be beneficial for the tyer to tie the hackle in by the larger part of the stem toward the butt when considering only a few wraps will be holding the feather in place? Then upon the one or two wraps of hackle to the rear of the hook catch the thinner portion of the stem with the silk and bring a wrap of silk back through the hackle to the eye of the hook. Again here I'm just trying to justify tip or butt which would make the most sense using the larger silk thread.
Then too there is the matter of the tip breaking during the wrapping procedure. Tie in by the tip and wrap by the butt if the more fragile tip breaks it means probably tossing the feather . Tie in by the butt and a tip breaks at least one has the chance to regrip the hackle plier and give it another go.
I so seldom have tied with silk I choose to live dangerous and tie in mostly by the tip. I also nearly always strip the barbs from the side of the feather that is going to lie against the hook shank. Like you I find the finished result a bit more appealing. I suspect once I go to silk I'll be changing my ways.

Regards, Jerry

[John Dunn]

dd ---tied stem first and with one side stripped came out most acceptable.
I like the same technique If I don"t strip half quill it seem to be too heavy, thanks for the post.

Best
John

[William Anderson]

Wait, they've given a Pheasant and Partridge a special name? It's a pheasant tail with a partridge hackle, right? Just checking. What do they call a Hare's ear and Partridge?

Those are great SBS's. I thought we might have heard from Dennis with the tip and stem comments. We have had this same conversation a number of times, but there are always lots of new faces that haven't been a part of that, so I'm glad it's come up again. Dennis, Bob and others show both tie in methods are just as effective. I should probably spend some time learning to tie in by the tip, I just haven't encountered a reason. If you took a vote (and we have done that years ago) you would probably end up 50/50 I would imagine.

I like to strip one side of the hackle as well. Sometimes just a few fibers to begin the wrapping of the hackle or when I tie hen hackle palmered through the thorax, I like to have one side stripped to keep things sparse depending on the density you're looking for. You can bring more wraps of silk up through the thorax and hackle and keep the hackle from looking too mangled. If I wrapped the hackle without stripping one side the silk, slightly dubbed as it's brought up through the hackle, needs a little wiggle room to fit in there.

hen and grouse flymph_william anderson.jpg

(What do they call a Big Mac? - A Big Mac is still a Big Mac, but they call it....Le Big Mac. - Le Big Maaac. What do they call a Whopper? - I don't know, I didn't go in a Burger King.)

w

[FliTrap]

I consider the shape of the feather in assessing the tie in method! A Spade shape to the feather will cause a natural taper in the barbs if tied in stem first and rapped back to the hanging bobbin thread! In tying this way, the catching of the feather in the last rap sets behind most all other hackle, hiding it a bit as well into the thorax area of the fly. all told, this method also reduces the "bulk" of stem and thread in the head area and as I noted, allows the barbs of hackle to taper just a bit, longer to the front and supported some by the lesser size, right behind! May I say, that in such fashion, the fly will "pulse" a bit more in the "strip-pause" type retrieve, when fished, as the hackle maintains shape, as tied!
The smallest of details can make all the difference in acting of the fly, once in the water and affected by current!
Wow, I say, tie some each way and enjoy further study on the water!
FliTrap

[FliTrap]

William!
a striking, fly, there, your "hen and grouse flymph"!!!!
FliTrap

[John Dunn]

If I am tying a size 14 or 12 hook, if I tie from tip I use the largest half of the hackle and discard the end to get the proper size of hackle. Like I said I strip half of one side and then trim to length for hackle to fit fly, on small hooks we are talking a different method. My descriptive writing has something to be desired

I hope this helped.

John

[Ruard]

Wait, they've given a Pheasant and Partridge a special name? It's a pheasant tail with a partridge hackle, right? Just checking. What do they call a Hare's ear and Partridge?

w

Hi William,

I would call it a Hare's Lug and Partridge. About the stem and the point: I ty them in at the point if I wish the hacklepoints slope back, I halve the hackle then first and stroke them back and fix them behind the eye. If I want them more square I tie them in by the stem and also halve them and fix them with the thread trough the hackle.

Greeting