FLYMPH FORUM

Ladies & Gentlemen,
I have long looked for proof of the theory, and in another forum I frequent, there was, posted in a thread on the subject, a link to some great reading and photos that I thought might be of interest to us all. Some of you may have seen this already, but it's my first time. Examine the photos and give opinions. I'm especially interested in the supposed caddis swimming to the surface with the air bubbles.

http://www.flyline.com/tips_trivia/all_that_glitters/

Mark

Mark,

I remember a few years ago there was discussion of something Cutter wrote on the same topic. I can't remember how it all panned out, but I do recall there being quite a divide in the opinions, with good arguments and a very helpful discussion. Anyone else recall that? It was on the OutdoorsBest Fly Fisherman forum. I'm really suprised those are the only known photographic evidence in the history of man. There must have been someone else who has spent some time looking into it. Couldn't you just film an aquarium caddis hatching?

w

To be honest the whole thing smacks of the age old search for that certain magic to produce that magic fly that no trout can resist. The assumption on the part of any analyst being that if such air bubbles existed that they would make a dramatic difference in our flys and the taking of them by trout - that is indeed a big leap of faith as there are so many other factors involved in tempting a trout with a fly without getting down to such minutae.

Without serious scientific evidence this sceptic thinks its an avenue not worth persuing and is more akin to the Quest for the Holy Grail.

Hi
Otter, the air bubble may very well be a trigger the trout look for during a caddis hatch. I'm not saying this is scientific proof, but the idea intrigues me, especially since Vern Hidy mentioned it in his writings.

The information on that link page is interesting, but the photo of the hatching caddis leaves me desiring more. First, it is very difficult to discern if it is a caddis. It looks more like a water boatman.

Mark

Interesting post Mark.
I'm split on both sides.Quote (There must have been someone else who has spent some time looking into it. Couldn't you just film an aquarium caddis hatching?---W )
Sid Gorden in his book 1937 (How to fish from top to bottom) talked about a caddis (a shining ball of quick silver) . Gary Borger also elaborated on sparkling caddis while in the Ovipositing stage.

I use a sparkle pupa and do well on the fly,but I also use a invicta wet fly and also do well?. Maybe that's why a hairs ear fly works as a emerger for me? another thing that comes to mind is Ray Bergmans recipe for wax and white gas for floating flies ,maybe that's why a lot of people still use the formula including me(It works) Ya know a fella can drive himself crazy in this sport if your not careful.
Best
John

I have read somewhere an explanation that this phenomenon accounts for the success of gold / silver beads on flies, which intuitively seems to make sense, at least to me.

Off on something of a tangent, it surprises me that so little seems to be known about the life-cycle of the caddis fly. As an example, recently there was a most spectacular bust-up in the pages of the UK's Fly Fishing and Fly Tying magazine - given the delay in distribution, those of you in the States will probably be just getting it now. Enjoy!

I'm not sure if the academic research has not been done, or whether it has just not yet permeated through to the fly fishing community, though that would seem unlikely. Perhaps it is not seen as of sufficient economic importance to justify the research? Dunno, but there seems to be a lack of answers to basic questions - and believe me, I can be flummoxed with the best of them.

Andrew.

In the link of Mark there is a photo of a beatis spinner. It is a quite little one. Here is a better link with a photo of other "haften"as we call them also egglaying:

http://www.kolvoortonderwaterfoto.nl/ga ... alleryId=1

Kolvoort has not translated his text. He has an English part but that is under construction. Also some nice pictures of sedge larvea.

Greeting

Hi all,
Ruard, interesting photos in that link.

I have seen actual film footage of a Baetis spinner, engulfed in an air bubble as it swam to the bottom to deposit eggs. However, nobody has filmed the air bubble phenomenon regarding caddis, except in the egg-laying process, where the bubble has been observed. Scientific information I've read regarding caddis DOES not mention the air bubble during emergence. I've seen this discussed over and over, yet, other than this photo of a supposed caddis, it is the only one I have found or seen. What William has said, basically, is that our underwater photography and film making capabilities are now, so advanced, it seems a better photo would be forthcoming. Yet there are few photos.

Andrew,
If you don't have a copy of Caddisflies by Gary LaFontaine, you need a copy. It is, by far one of the most definitive works on caddis ever written. There is plenty known about them, yet this phenomenon, which Mr.LaFontaine mentions in his book, has yet to be actually proven by photo or film, unless you want to believe the photo posted in the article.

So, the debate continues. I would love to think it may be present and the extra trigger it might add to our emerging caddis wingless wets.

Mark

Hey,
I have found this interesting illustration of a caddis pupa. In this drawing, the fly DOES look very much like a water boatman. Could that very unclear photo really be a caddis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CaddisPupaBMNH.jpg

Mark

The "trapped air" phenomenon has been discussed at length on almost every fly fishing and tying forum out there. While I have physically seen the bubble on diving beetles and boatmen, and observed it in photos of various egg laying insects, the only examples of air or trapped gases in emerging insects that I've seen have been with chironomids. That said, it seems logical that other insects such as caddis use trapped gases to rise in the water column.

One thing of note with regards to emerging chironomids on stillwaters is that the sheen from the trapped gases is at its peak within a foot or two of the surface. Having descended from some depth the variation in pressure would account for this, but in shallow streams this is probably not as relevant.

In practical terms, I don't think the presence of air bubbles trapped in the fibres of flies in any way hurts the chances of taking a fish and in fact probably helps. So while the debate about trapped air rages on I will continue to tye and fish flies with beads, tinsel, flash, trapped air bubbles, et. al (and probably do better for it)

Aaron