FLYMPH FORUM

GENTS,
I WAS WONDERING IF ANYONE HAS EVER HAD THE MISFORTUNE OF TRYING TO FISH WITH A HAND-TIED MONOFILAMENT LEADER THAT WAS "OUT OF BALANCE"? BY THAT I MEAN ONE SECTION BEING A SLIGHT LONGER OR SHORTER WHICH CAN THROW THE WHOLE THING OUT OF WHACK. ON THE OTHER HAND, WHEN THINGS ARE RIGHT, NOTHING COULD BE SWEETER TO TOSS ABOUT.
I HAVE TO ADMIT THAT I HAVE NOT GRADUATED TO THE WORLD OF BRAIDED BUTTS AND FURLED LEADERS. THEY LOOK INTERESTING AND EVERYONE TELLS ME THAT THIS IS THE WAY TO FLY (NO PUN INTENDED). NOT THAT I WON'T VISIT THAT HAPPY PLACE SOMEDAY BUT FOR NOW I AM CONCENTRATING ON "TYING MY OWN".
LEADER FORMULA'S ASIDE, IT SEEMS YOU CAN JUST TELL WHEN FLYS AREN'T FLYING RIGHT NO MATTER HOW MUCH ADJUSTMENT YOU MAKE IN YOUR CASTING STROKES.
THE FIRST QUESTION IS: HOW MANY OF YOU STILL TIE YOUR OWN LEADERS? AND OF THOSE, DO YOU EVER RUN INTO THE SITUATION ABOVE?
I DO ON OCCASION TIE ON A TAPERED LEADER. WHAT A GREAT IDEA! I WISH I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT OF IT. BUT, THEY TOO HAVE THEIR LIMITATIONS MOSTLY IN LONGEVITY.
TELL ME OF YOUR THOUGHTS,
I'LL BE IN THE DEN,
DOUGSDEN

Doug - I had exactly this problem when I was fishing earlier today. I had just switched to a new leader and tyed on an tippet that was too long and too light weight. The result was a series of very poor casts since the line could not transfer the energy of the cast to the fly. To solve the problem, I had to trim off the tippet and switch to shorter, heavier tippet. It took me a long time to appreciate how important the leader/tippet is to the cast. I am sure that this can be a source of frustration to new fly casters.

I have played around with tying my own leaders, which I have enjoyed. I like using a section of red line at the butt section, to act as a built in strike indicator. This was a technique I learned from Harry Murray, a famous author of some great books on smallmouth bass and trout fishing.

I have read a lot about furled leaders, but have yet to try one. I hope to try one in the next year.

Great topic! I am sure this is going to get some very interesting responses.

I used to tie up my own leaders. Thought it was superior to store bought tapered leaders. After awhile, I too would run into these issues stated above. Seemed like I was spending more time messing with the leader than fishing at times. So, I stopped and just started buying tapered leaders and haven't ever looked back. Yeah, I have issues still with balance, but to me it seems much easier to fix it. I will fish my leaders until it is absolutely time to change them out. The cost IMO is about the same. I no longer have to buy so many tippets.

Some people really enjoy making their own leaders... I don't

Gents,
I've been tying my own leaders for years and have not really noticed a problem, even though a section might be slightly off. If it's off a lot I imagine it can be a problem, but after tying them for so long, they are not off more than, maybe, 1/4 inch. Most of the time the sections are spot on. I guess this comes from observing- 1, how much extra to add to each section as it is tied and 2 how much leader material one leaves as a tag of the two sections.

Maybe it's just me, I don't know.

Mark

I don't have very good experience with furled leaders. They tangle up much more than the leader I normaly use: abutt of about 1.20m of braided nylon. 60 cm of this I make thinner by pulling out threads. On the end I will make a little loop and on that comes a piece of 1.50 m tippet of 12/100 (loop in loop) Mostly I fish with a dropper on 40 cm from the tipfly. If I need some extra power to turn over I loop first a piece of 16/100 of about 50cm on the braided loop and then with a waterknot 1m 12/100.

Greeting

In the past I tied my own leaders, then I went to Airflo with a butt section and you tie on the length if tippet. Now I use furled leaders, some store bought and others that folks have sent me. I prefer the furled leaders. The Tenkara line is furled and I have not had any serious tangling problems.

I tied my own for over 30 years and have switched to furling for all my dry fly leaders. Get the book Drag Free Drift for a great read on making and refining your leaders.

Guys,
Thank you for your responses. They are quite good! I had a great evening with my tender little 3 weight rod, a tin full of flymphs, and a "balanced" leader tied by yours truly. The lightness of the 3 weight sometimes magnifies leader balance problems but not tonight. Everything was going my way. Towards dark, the clouds began to build along with a slight breeze and it was plenty cool out already. One word came to mind......Bloa!
Does anyone know or remember the word?
Dougsden

Doug, a great topic and something close to my heart. Also good response from the guys.
My experiences are...
Back in Australia (I am now in the UK) we got away with pretty straightforward leaders. Most of started with the Ritz formula and over time these go modified. Now we fish pretty large flies compared to what I now use, so we were satisfied with 4x & 5x tippets. Eventually, as a need through guiding in Tasmania, I ended up with a 9' leader composed of 3 sections and 5 dimensions. Butt section was one third of the total length (e.g. 3'), the next section was composed of 3 equal parts of 1' reducing by .10mm for each section, and the final section was the tippet of 3'. Yep, simple but easy to fix when a client stuffed up.
Moving to the UK opened up a whole new world to me on leaders. My old trusty formula did not work so well on small flies, longer leaders and finer tippets. The waters I fished were too clear most of the time and I had switched to using soft hackles.
Over the past 8 years I have played with furled leaders - okay but hopeless for extra long leaders and in high wind; braided ones from Europe - broadcasts to the fish that you are about to land a fly with all the spray; poly leaders - I just plain hate em; but always returning back to monofilament. I also tried Fluorocarbon but I just can't tear myself away from co-polymer and to be more specific Frog Hair.
So what have I learnt. Firstly, relativity of butt size to line thickness is paramount. Get this right and most of the leader issues go away. For example:
Butt thickness for leaders:
Line weight Diameter (mm’s) Diameter (,000 inch)
3 .45 to .50 .017 to .020
4 .45 to .55 .019 to .021
5 .50 to .55 .020 to .022
6 .55 to .60 .021 to .023
7 .60 to .65 .022 to .024
8 .60 to .65 .023 to .026
Too often when I am tutoring a client I observe that the butt thickness is way too thin for the line size they are using which results in the leader losing energy and landing in a mess.
I also learnt that the decrease from one section to another needs to be consistent and that the right amount is .05mm. So immediately you are starting to think about length and tippet thickness in order to build a leader.
And lastly, I re-learnt the importance of having the right tippet thickness relative to hook size. For example:
Tippet thickness for flies
Tippet thickness mm/inches Fly size range
8x .08mm/.003” 20 to 29
7x .10mm/.004” 20 to 28
6x .13mm/.005” 18 to 26
5x .15mm/.006” 14 to 20
4x .18mm/.007” 6 to 14
3x .20mm/.008” 6 to 12
Get all three right and you are a long way to getting great turnovers.
I normally fish a 12' (or there about) for a single fly. Add droppers and I get out to 18' (I also fish with a 12' 3wt rod for soft hackles)
So this is the formula which I came up with and which suits me:
Butt Section:
18" of .48mm
18" of .43mm
18" of .38mm
14" of .33mm
14" of .28mm
14" of .23mm
12" of .18mm
12" of .3mm
30" tippet of .10mm - 7x.
No having said all of that do I still make my own. In reality, seldom. I have a range of tapered Frog Hair leaders in varying tip diameters and in 9'6" and 12' lengths. Depending on what I am fishing I select a leader and add a tippet to it. For example. If I am fishing a single fly in size 14, I use a 9'6" tapered leader to 4x and add a 24" section of 5x. If I am fishing multiple flies, then I select a 12" tapered leader to 4x add 3 lengths of 5x, 6x and 7x of 30" each (Dropper attachment is something else). Get the picture.
But, if I wasn't on the water 5 days a week and fished for fun (as opposed to business) I would probably make my own.

flyfishwithme

I agree with what you posted about having a sufficient leader butt. I can't say I have ever had a problem with my furled leaders for either long leaders (up to 22 feet) or casting into wind. I feel they perform as well or better than the tapered mono leaders I built for over 30 years. A couple of weeks ago I was casting a sizeable hopper with a 4 wt in winds steady @20 mph with much stronger gusts.