FLYMPH FORUM

Kind of racking my brain here, but I think (dangerous stuff) the October Caddis is the only bug that I fish exclusively down and across. I know I do not chase them with dry's as I would rather go home than fish dry's.

If my pattern is Orange or Copper, I can usually take fish if the OC's are present.

The thread by UC Stev,(OC) and the thread by Randyflycaster (down and across) got me thinking about this bug.

I cast quartering down stream, usually with a 'Dump cast", any where from 20 to 60 feet. I do not know the correct name for a dump cast. As soon as my cast has straightened out horizontal to the water, I give the fly line a tug. The whole line comes back to me a foot or so, then drops on the water in a series of S curves. The fly will travel downstream, dead drift for a foot or two, sinking a few inches as it does. If I slide a bead above the fly it will sink a bit faster and deeper. Once in a while i get a strike before the fly line starts to straighten out. Most of the time the strike will come as the line becomes taut, and the fly starts to rise. Mends to the line can be thrown at any point of the cast.

This is the only technique I have ever used when trying to imitate the October caddis on my home waters, however, the patterns I use do double duty as scud imitations. They are very basic in construction, but effective when called on.

In my experience (we do not have October Caddis here) fishing with a wet sub surface fly often produces bigger trout than the ones that are breaking the surface to feed.
I have seen a lot of complicated October Caddis patterns, I like your keep it simple twist, they catch fish- they have no more to prove.
I like your "dump cast" description, I understood it perfectly and it is a cast I use often- sometimes unplanned as I do not have enough shooting line stripped off the reel, the line becoming tight while still travelling forward has the same result.

DUBBN wrote:
I cast quartering down stream, usually with a 'Dump cast", any where from 20 to 60 feet. I do not know the correct name for a dump cast. As soon as my cast has straightened out horizontal to the water, I give the fly line a tug. The whole line comes back to me a foot or so, then drops on the water in a series of S curves. The fly will travel downstream, dead drift for a foot or two, sinking a few inches as it does. If I slide a bead above the fly it will sink a bit faster and deeper. Once in a while i get a strike before the fly line starts to straighten out. Most of the time the strike will come as the line becomes taut, and the fly starts to rise. Mends to the line can be thrown at any point of the cast.

I'll caveat this with saying that what get called an October caddis here in the eastern US is different than the "true" October caddis in the west, but that's exactly same technique that I find most successful when they're on the water. I've caught a few trout with an upstream upstream with an O.C., dead drift, but not nearly as many as with what you describe.

What I'm curious about, though, is what sort of water do you most often encounter them on? Here the stream that I most frequently encounter them on is a fairly slow moving one. (Big Spring in Newville, PA if anyone is interested). That technique often works there, even during other hatches. I've got a couple of several different theories about why, though:

1) Because it's slow water, I can get away with lifting the rod without causing too much of a cross stream motion.
2) Caddis pupae move quickly to the surface, and that technique gives the fly a vertical motion.
3) Because it's slow water, motion make the fly look more alive.
4) The fish are hungrier at that time of the year, and more willing to chase an actively moving fly. (In Big Spring, it's immediately post-spawn for rainbows, and immediately pre-spawn for brook trout. Neither species spawns there at their "normal" time.) An October caddis (really a Great Autumn Brown Sedge) is a pretty good sized chunk of protein.

Perhaps they're all true.

redietz wrote:.

What I'm curious about, though, is what sort of water do you most often encounter them on? Here the stream that I most frequently encounter them on is a fairly slow moving one.

I hate to admit what I consider a October Caddis "hatch". I have never seen more than a dozen of them in one day in all the years I have fished. Normally, I will only see three or four. With so few, it is difficult to call it a hatch. That being said, I must call it a hatch as the trout key on the color Orange whenever the October Caddis are present.

The most common place for a sighting is in the slower water. How ever, I do well presenting the pattern in very fast riffles as well.

I better state here, that where I fish, there is a large variety of caddis on the water at any given time, from August till October. There are Spotted Sedge, Little Western Dark Sedge, Little Sister Sedge, Green Sedge, and many others that can be hatching at the same time. The Muskrat, Olive Soft Hackle, Hares Ear Soft Hackle (March Brown), Brown Hackle Peacock (Red Tag), in sizes 16-14 are about the only patterns I need to take fish when the numerous varieties of caddis are about. Just let the OC's show up in their small numbers, and I better have an Orange pattern on my line, or I will be struggling to catch fish.

Mataura mayfly wrote:In my experience (we do not have October Caddis here) fishing with a wet sub surface fly often produces bigger trout than the ones that are breaking the surface to feed.

I couldn't agree more Jeff. After a morning and early afternoon nymphing for the bigger fish, it can be fun (for me) to throw on a Soft Hackle and start targeting the smaller fish that are breaking the water every where. I guess it's a treat because of the viscous strikes. Nymphing can be so tedious. Was that the bottom or a fish? Did my indicator move or not? With the Soft hackles, down and across I get that "instant gratification" with the strike.

If I get bored with catching the smaller fish, I will put a small Wooly Bugger in size 10 or 12 on my line below the October caddis, or I will lengthen my leader and sink my Soft Hackles deeper in the water column by adding a bead or two. Both techniques seem to produce a few bigger fish, but the quantity of trout declines (for me) dramatically. It is a fun choice to have. Quantity, or quality, but thats one of the rewards to learning to fish down and across with the October Caddis, and all its cousins that hatch at the same time.

Thanks Bob and Jeff. I like to hear about other members experiences with not just the October Caddis, but caddis in general, and what techniques we deploy to catch fish on our little flymphs.

This is the only October Caddis that I fish consistently with a dead drift.


And this is done usually in the spring, casting into a riffle washing down into the prime lie of a pool.

The rest of these and more are fished in a wide range of techniques depending on the waters and the stage of the bug.


In my experience where October Caddis are common, big fish can loose all inhibitions about feeding on top when it come to this big meal. What is happening determines the choice of fly- emerging, egg laying or both can create a feeding frenzy. One of the best books I have read to tweak your caddis skills is Leonard Wright Jr.'s Fishing the Dry Fly as a Living Insect. IMO fishing the OC as a living insect applies equally well to the emerging pupa. Motion can be the key and is often far more productive than a dead drift. Decades ago I was in the middle of a daytime OC feeding spurt but the closest thing I had in my vest was a Ted's stonefly nymph. Fished with a Leisenring lift I had a very hot hour of fishing that made me ponder if Ted used his fly for double duty. From then on I have tied many of my patterns for dual caddis/stonefly imitations.

This is my normal daytime OC softie usually paired in a dry/dropper combo used in pocket water in Sept-Oct searching around log jams and undercut rocks.

The wire rib also allows me to use it as an anchor fly and dap the dry as an egg layer. Fish have come a foot out of the water to grab an OC flitting about the stream.
Toward dusk I may change over to a cast with more adults but the soft hackle has still been effective- maybe taken as a spent caddis.

Roadkill, you have some wonderful looking patterns. Your insight to the October Caddis is uncanny. I do not know if this qualifies as adding life, but at times with other caddis, as well as the OC, I will shake my rod tip on a tight line. Just a little. I have always wondered if it induced strikes. It didnt work well enough for me to develop it as a technique, but, I would get a strike every now and then doing the shake.

Thanks for the insight. You have given me some things to ponder.

One more thing, and please anyone else answer. How prolific can the hatches be?