FLYMPH FORUM

I've seen different answers on this, so I'm a bit confused. Some anglers say that when swinging flies I should mend only once, after the cast is made, then keep my fly rod low and let the fly swing downstream on a tight line.

Other anglers say that I should make repeated mends so that the fly swings with some slack in the line. If I make repeated mends, should I also use an indicator?

Thanks,

Randy

This is a more complicated question than it might seem, Randy. Mending is normally done to take current-induced drag off the fly -- to put it into a "dead drift" mode. How often you need to do this is a function of several things: the length/diameters of your leader system, the speed of the current, and any changes in current speed between you and the fly. Other factors also come into play, such as the type of fly you are using, whether you are casting "blind' or to a sighted feeding fish, whether or not there is a hatch in progress, etc. Long story shortened somewhat, if you want your fly to drift at the speed of the current in which it is located for the duration of the drift, you may have to mend your line several times. If you want to have the fly swing across the current starting immediately after it hits the water, you may not want to mend at all. If you want the fly to dead drift for a ways and then swing, you may want to mend only once or twice. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve -- how you want to present your fly to the fish.

Randyflycaster wrote:If I make repeated mends, should I also use an indicator?

No. If you're fishing downstream, you'll know if there's a take, even with some slack in the line. You'll not only feel a tug, but unless you're fishing a weighted fly or a sinking line, you'll often see the rise. And having some slack in your line increases the likelihood of hooking the fish.

Randy, a big welcome and thanks for getting started with a question of fishing these flies. It's something we don't discuss enough, but there is probably a reason for that, and Bill's answer captures a good part of the problem. Every cast is entirely unique and you can't possibly devise a rule or two that will steer your right every time. And I don't mean to complicate things either, swinging a wet/wingless-wet fly can be one of the simplest and most effective methods, but an attention to the details can make for a much more satisfying experience. You want to control the action of the fly in it's drift to behave naturally, for the most part. That would mean using several mends upstream in fast water to help you control the action of the fly or maybe even making downstream mends in slow water to create action where little exists. Really depends on what you believe the target will respond to best.

Would you mind sharing a little about either your experience or your water to help you get the kind of answers you're looking for? There are a lot of folks here with a lot of experience presenting these flies. It could be interesting to hear a specific scenario, then see the variety of responses you'll get, all of them different and probably all correct.

w

Welcome Randy.

This is a story of how I discovered the down and across swing. (long winded)
http://flymphforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4243

When I am fishing down and across, sometimes I use one big mend. Sometimes I let drag hit the line immediately. Sometimes, I throw a small mend and shake the tip of my rod just as the line is starting to straighten out. Let the fish tell you what they want.

There are days when fishing down and across is idiot proof (which is when I am at my best). Then there are days when finesse is required. Perfect, and precise mends, and also perfect cast placement. Sylvester Nemes has some decent books on the subject. You might want to think about starting there .

Get an idea when the trout are keying on caddis, then try down and across. Once you hook a few that way, it will become easier on future trips to decide when to deploy this technique.

Have fun,

Wayne

Randy, great way to make an entrance.
Mending, how to and when to is not often discussed and for myself, I feel there are no set rules. You alone must decide on the merits of the cast how often or how little the mending must be performed to obtain the desired results.
The above answers all have some wonderful input, all of it has its merits. There are times you will need upstream mends (most often) but there are times when it is advantageous to mend downstream, it very much depends on the currents between you and your intended quarry.
When fishing reasonably fast big water across and down, I will often throw just one large mend upstream just as the line settles on the water. This helps eliminate a large downstream "bow" in my line which will form if no mend is thrown because of the current action on the belly of the line. It allows a short dead drift at the start of the swing, but also allows the line to come straighter sooner off the tip of the rod and I feel puts me in closer contact with the fly/flies as they swing in the current. Often takes on a swinging fly are quite subtle and a large downstream bow in the line adding slack to the system can negate the "feel" back through the line and rod.
In other waters, where there may be a back eddy between myself and the trout, I may mend several times- often upstream to allow for the different currents of the main stream flow and the back eddy.

Each and every piece of water, each and every cast is/are different, therefore the mystery of how often, which direction and how much to mend vary with each situation. Through experience you will learn what you think is best for any one situation. You can even cast and mend the heck out of the swing, stand in the same spot- cast again and mend just the once, thus producing to different presentations of the fly from the same position.

Now, to throw a spanner in the works.
I have fished with and been outfished by a guy over here that refuses to mend line on a wet fly cast at all. His reasoning is the pauses caused in the drift by mending look unnatural and do more to put trout off the take than a dragging constant swing. He tends to cast more upstream than across, giving a period of drag free drift until the line becomes more square on to the current and then allows the fly to swing on a taunt line down and lifts at the end. He catches fish, usually more often than I do on the same runs.

An indicator, do you need one? Again my answer will be much the same. Sometimes you will, sometimes you won't. I like to use an indicator in deep water I cannot wade close enough to where the trout may be and often there is confused current between my position and that of the trout. Because of depth and current action on the line I feel I have often lost touch with my flies and an indicator is a great help in these situations.
If casting upstream and trying to dead-drift dragless drift present small flies I will often use an indicator. Because often I will throw a "wriggle" cast upstream, to add slack to the system and allow a natural (I think) drift of the fly. Slack line means little feel back through and an indicator can be handy. If it stops, dips, moves in a strange direction, lift the rod tip!
Indicator type is a personal choice. A large dry fly gives a "second chance" catch possibility. Plastic bobbers seldom become waterlogged and sink. Yarn indicators are handy if fishing around log jams or snaggy water, if using a large dry fly as an indicator here, the trout may well head for the thicket of the log jam, causing the dry fly to snag, less chance of that with a yarn indicator.
Foam, putty, yarn, dry fly- the choices are many and for you to decide what works best for you. Indicators have a place, but are not needed in all situations.

Something to consider and the technique I use most of the time is to put the mend into the cast before the line touches the water. This can be achieved via a reach cast or by putting a curve into the cast. One of the advantages to mending before the line is on the water is that your fly/flies begin fishing as soon as they drop. One can also curve the line around obstacles rather than having to "lift over" as with a conventional mend. Additional adjustments can be made by up or down stream mends as the flies proceed through the drift.

An often overlooked disadvantage to mending after the cast has been made is that pretty much any manipulation of the line will result in pulling the fly. Even small mends can move the fly out of the line of drift you want to cover. However, you can compensate for this ahead of time by making a slightly longer initial cast and mending the line to put the fly into the target area.

While I strongly believe that learning how to control fly swing through mending is a crucial skill for fishing wets, I also believe that the less mending one has to perform after the cast is made and the line is on the water, the better.

Mending is done to reposition the line in order to reduce or eliminate drag on the fly/tippet/line. My understanding of a swing occurs at the end of a drag free drift, ergo tension is beginning to pull a fly that is sunken, thus causing it to rise through the different water columns' making a fly look as if it is emerging (ascending) and possibly acting like an escaping food. Of course this is a simplification and determined by what type of fly you are fishing. Swinging a streamer (sculpin or leech pattern) can be done many different ways. You may swing by causing the fly to look disoriented or injured. I often use the swing to get into a territorial fish's territory. Fly fishing swing an interesting interpretational tool. There are many types of mends and all useful. There are also many slack line presentations suck as the Parachute Cast, Reach Cast, Pile Cast…. on and on. These are also very useful.

Thanks for the great replies. I generally fish smaller streams (tailwaters). When I started swinging wets usually as searching flies I would cast, mend once, then let the fly swing downstream. (I originally thought, from watching several videos, this was the only way to swing flies, and, yes, I found this method to be successful.)

Recently, however, I've been watching more youtube videos and reading more articles. and I was a little surprised to see that many anglers keep mending the line as it swings, so I became a little confused.

Both camps - the single and the many menders - seem to present their techniques as if it is the only way to swing flies.

From the replies here, I guess that both techniques work, and that I shouldn't limit myself to just one,

Randy

Randy - I let the fish decide. Some days they insist on a dead-drift presentation (multiple mends). Some days they will only take a moving fly. Some days they will only take a fly actively skated across the surface, when they have little time to think about the offering. When I am fishing, I think it is up to me to figure out what mood they are in on that day and set of conditions. I guess what I am trying to say is, do not get locked into only a single method of fishing or presentation. If the fish are not biting, it maybe the presentation they are ignoring, not the fly. Sometimes simply changing HOW you fish a fly, can make a lot of difference.

This is by no means scientific. Just my own opinion, and my own experience on the water.

Have fun out there!