FLYMPH FORUM

Hank had made a comment in a thread in the "Cabin" that seemed like a good discussion to have:

hankaye wrote:Howdy All;

I'm amazed at the mirror images from the surface. Surprised we can't see out of the water.
Reckon it's the angle ... Wonder if it's the same for the fish?

hank

(I would prefer if we didn't add discussion of UV to this thread, as it seems to push buttons. )

Did a little googling and found this:
Simulated with a wide-angle :fish-eye" lens:


and this:
http://www.flyfishingfromscratch.com/bl ... -see-hear/
I found the diagram interesting, since it shows why crouching down works.

Kirk

Kirk, this is a cool shot, and there is a lot to be discussed when considering the window and the reality of what that really means. Skues spends a great deal of time discussing this in my recent reading, where his friend set up a viewing position so they could observe what is seen and when and at what point the fly comes into view. The description was very interesting and detailed regarding how within the mirror the reflection of the stream bottom or vegetation had everything to do with the shades and colors reflected on the fly itself. It's been some time sense reading that, but I thought it was fascinating that these guys were doing the kinds of test we would expect from modern fisherman. I need to find that to follow up. Lots of documentation has been done since and most every book in the past 30 years has similar diagrams depicting the window and the angles of viewing. It's a lot to discuss. I'm very interested to hear what others have experienced and other references that deal with the subject.

Nice photo.
Oh..... so many variables and so little time! This is one of those "never ending stories" of science that even scientists struggle to answer...... let alone little educated me!

On hearing, fish do not have ears...... do they?
They do not have external ear openings, but they do have internal ear "parts" that send sound messages to their brains. They have an ear "canal" full of tiny hair like nerve endings and little "stones" that rest on the hairs. Any noise vibration (waves) in the water cause the fish to vibrate, the stones being denser than the fish, vibrate at a different frequency, this causes them to move differently and sends this message via the hairs to the brain, alerting them to a ruckus in the water.
This is what I believe they pick up on most when they "hear" wading boot studs or bars grating on stone.

They also pick up vibration and motion waves as the water is disturbed, through their lateral line. When wading in felts or at least being as quiet as you can, sure you cannot be seen, ever had a trout just up and bolt before you get to it, even though you are sure you are in its blind-spot? Odds are it felt your presence by the water being disturbed.

Sight, well for me there are just too many variables to give a firm answer. Depth, refraction, intensity of light, angle of light, colouration of water, velocity of water, oxygen content...... the list can be endless. They have eyes, they can see. A lot has been written on sight "cones" and blind-spots, but many of us would have struck times when many a rule can be debated.
Unless you are living life as a born-again fish, odds are you will never know the answer. I think a lot of the time it is to do more with the fishes focus, where it is looking in the water for its next meal. If a fish is not on the alert already, through sound or vibration, odds are it is looking for food. If looking up, they are harder to approach, if looking down they are easier. Well in my casual observations they are.

One thing I have learnt is, you can waste a lot of time studying this science of fish senses. Waste a lot of time and materials trying to tie the perfect fly (especially surface floating dry flies), when for centuries dry fly fishers have been using Mayfly imitations that are perfect regimental sergeant like in posture and pencil straight in the body, very few naturals sit on the film like that, but the flies work and will continue to do so. The fish sees "enough" to trigger a response and that is all I need.

One of my favorite quotes is by the late Gary Lafontaine, talking about sneaking up on fish streamside "Fish always know you are there, hell, even a hatchery fish knows you are there, it's just that 're glad to see you.

I think any time you can be stealthy increases your chances. Realistically there's too much going on To spend a lot of time worrying about it. Be as stealthy as you can, cast your line and catch some fish.

Old Hat wrote:One of my favorite quotes is by the late Gary Lafontaine, talking about sneaking up on fish streamside "Fish always know you are there, hell, even a hatchery fish knows you are there, it's just that 're glad to see you.

I think any time you can be stealthy increases your chances. Realistically there's too much going on To spend a lot of time worrying about it. Be as stealthy as you can, cast your line and catch some fish.

This reminds me on the fishing of the little secret river, where Old Hat did caught many more fish then I did because he bend his knees and mine will hurt if I should do that :




Sorry it is not quite sharp, but I don't have any better.


Greeting

That was a very memorable day for me fishing with you and William.

I really need to work on my stealth on-stream. I may not be fishing for trout, but bream and bass (bass especially) can also be prone to panic and bolt for far away places.

Kirk

Old Hat wrote: That was a very memorable day for me fishing with you and William.

Carl, that was a great time. What a nice shot of you working that smaller water. That's the only way.

Kirk, me too, brother. It's a difficult topic to deal with, but stealth is critical and doing my best, I still feel like I do not do myself any favors when wading or catching all the limbs and high grass with in reach. It's something to work on.