FLYMPH FORUM

I have many books, but at this time I'm just to lazy to look up the information I want. Here is the question: I want to tie down to 22, but don't have hackle that small. I remember a method for making smaller hackle collars, but just can't remember who's book it was in. My wrapped hackles look to long.
Suggestion of : What bird has small feathers that look like partridge when wrapped and have a strong enough stem to manipulate ?
Suggestion: What hackle pliers are the best for holding on to those tiny tinny little weenie tips of the hackle? I'm looking for something that is machined well with precision tips.

Ariel, this topic comes up often enough that there will be a few links around. (I'm sure someone will know where they are. smiley ) But I'll offer a couple suggestions. The way I prefer, because you can use any feather is to create a loop just in front of the thorax and lay a few fibers in the loop, like you would tying a hair hackle, wrap that folding the fibers toward the bend as you wrap (should really only be one wrap) and then tie your eye. Personally, I haven't found any method that I use regularly. I've seen some larger flies tied in the manner I described that worked out beautifully. In sizes #20 or #22, I would have to just use a hen hackle or starling. Others here will have a lot more to offer. And everyone here uses a different hackle pliers. I prefer the JDorin teardrop pliers (small), but I have all of them and they all work. It's just a matter of using any tool often enough that you get the knack of it.

I'm looking forward to seeing the end results.

w

thanks William. I own about 4 different hackle pliers and find that the tips seldom are machined to hold well. They seem uneven and I have to file them down, which at times I do unevenly and only exacerbate the problem. Your suggestion for the hackle is taken. Starling. OK for the dark hackle but what if I need lighter colors. Maybe I could bleach them?

Ariel ~ Most game bird skins that include the head will have feathers small enough to hackle flies in that size range. The question is, are your eyes keen enough and your fingers nimble enough to find and handle them? It does take a soft touch, though; feathers that small are not usually very strong. My personal preference is for small English-style hackle pliers. Lacking really small feathers, William's suggestion about tying in longer hackle fibers out over the hook eye and then bending them back will work well, but requires some practice to learn how to get them distributed evenly around the hook.

Yes. Williams method is one I had tried and forgotten. I need to practice. Can you link me to English-style hackle pliers? No..wait...forget it...I can do it on my search engine. I'll take care of that right now. Small neck feathers... hadn't thought of that. I'll check that out as well.

An EZ type hackle pliers can work well with small fragile hackles and as cheap as chips.

http://www.cabelas.com/tools-vises-e-z- ... rs-1.shtml

Ariel - Here is a little trick you can use to reduce slippage of hackle pliers. Take a small bead of tacky cobblers wax (less than the size of a BB), warm it between your fingers until it is pliable, and then place it in the jaws of the hackle pliers. Let the jaws close on the wax, crushing it against the inner surface of both jaws. The excess wax will squeeze out. Wipe this off and then use that hackle pliers as you normally would. The wax helps make the jaws a little tackier and helps fill in any unevenness on the inner surface. I've used this trick for the past year, with good results.

Ariel, The Williams method works the best for these small flies, as well as the method that William mentioned. The biggest struggle is not to build bulk. This usually happens at the thorax or head of the fly. I think the method that William A. mentioned is a better method, however takes a bit more practice. On a #22 I would split the thread to form the loop instead of using a loop, only to cut down on thread use. I like Griffith's 14/0 thread and find it will split with a nice fine pointed tool quite well. On a #22 it won't matter if the hackle is spun around evenly. The method of tying in with the tips extending is a bit easier but on a #22 you will find it difficult not to build bulk in the thorax or at the head when you try to fold the hackle back. On these small wingless wets I will often split the thread, dub some fine dubbing in with a few trimmed hackle pieces, make a wrap or two and tie off. Then go back and pick out the dubbing and hackle. You're realistically only after color and profile on a #22. There are lot's of feather that you could wrap traditionally, but I can't think of many that would give you the appearance of partridge that are that small. A combination of dubbing and hackle could.

Hackle pliers: I have tried them all and in my opinion (your going to get a lot) these Orvis Hackle Pliers are by far the best for flies in the #14 and smaller range. Fine tip, grips very well ( I use them to grab small diameter thread for ribbing on tiny flies), and the thumb and finger plates give great control over the pliers. I'm constantly having people asking me what kind of hackle pliers I'm using when tying at the shows.
http://www.amazon.com/Orvis-Hackle-Pliers/dp/B003CTYLP6

As a note: If I hackle a very small fly traditionally, a genetic hen cape has small enough hackle, is strong and the most simple to manipulate. Look for a nicely colored specked badger cape. I have a couple that I got from Jim's site. they are invaluable for these little flies.

This is a speckled badger hen on a #20. There are plenty of even smaller hackles on this cape.

I've never tried that Orvis hackle plier, but would like to. The purchase of C&F rotary hackle pliers was a blessing for my tying. They grip everything and are forgiving to my shaky hands. I will try Ray's wax trick with some of my pliers. The shrink tubing is to slippery.

dd

OK, I'll chime in on the subject of hackle pliers. I have teardrop, E-Z (same as Radio Shack test clips), rotory, and English types. I almost always use the English type. I did modify the English things a bit. I took some Radio Shack shrink tubing (you can get a package that has various sizes and in an array of lovely colors) and cut a piece to slip over ONE of the jaws. To shrink the tubing so it stays on, hold it very close to a 100 - 150 watt lightbulb. If you're brave, you can use a match, but run the risk of burning it or catching the drapes on fire. Leave maybe 1/16" or so of the tubing sticking out past the end of the jaw. This will give you a small "hinge", and help keep the strem from breacking. I'm pretty heavy-handed, and this seems to work very well for me. As mentioned, it takes some getting used to handling your tools.
Oh, before I do the tubing thing with the English pliers, I take some fine emery cloth and kind of take the edge off the jaws of the pliers.
Guess that turned out to be a little more than $.02 worth. Sorry, rather slow at the office this afternoon.