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Considerations....on the fly.

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:07 am
by Mike Connor
I just got a pretty long post asking me a variety of questions on flies etc. I thought it might be of interest to others here. One of the main questions was;

> some general advice on all these flies, the best ones, and could you possibly give me an > outline of these definitions? I am really floundering with all these names.

It is very hard to give general advice, or even specific advice on such wide ranging matters, and some of the questions you asked require very complex answers and explanations, but I will do my best. I warn you now, I have some pretty firm views on some of these things, and as a consequence this will be long and involved!

With regard to the "outline of definitions", basically, no! I can't give you one, at least not one which would make much sense to you, and it would be useless anyway. Even trying to give you a broad outline would take far too long, and be quite pointless in any case. Indeed I would consider it a disservice! I will try to explain why I think so.

The desire to define, categorise, and name various things seems to be an innate human trait. Unfortunately, in many cases, and this is one of them, it merely causes more confusion. This is mainly because people look at it from the wrong perspective. The only really sensible way to define these things in this particular case is to know the function, ( whether designed to float or sink for instance, how to dress and fish it for a specific purpose, when, etc), and what the artificial is actually designed to represent when used in a specific manner. This is of course complicated when the vast majority are not dressed to resemble any naturals at all, but to meet some definition of an artificial, or some pattern or type which somebody once invented, and perhaps then only on a whim, with little if any concern for, or even knowledge of, any natural insect.

Many of these names and definitions are completely arbitrary, and some are quite wrong, even to the extent that the definition is a contradiction in terms, some have changed over the years, various people have widely differing ideas on things, and so on. "Wingless wets" which you mentioned, is a complete misnomer which basically arose because artificial flies dressed "only" with hackles to represent the wings, are different to flies which have "extra" wings, ( as well as hackles to represent "legs), made of feather fibre slips or similar to represent the wings. In those cases where no "extra" wings are present, some refer to these flies as "wingless wets". Just silly really, makes no sense at all, even to those who know what is meant, but that's how it is. "Upright Double Split Wing Dry Fly" is a fairly old definition which I have seldom seen used recently. Probably because hardly anybody dresses them any more. At least this "definition", gives an inkling of the wing construction and general purpose, if you know what the terms mean, but is otherwise just as pointless really. A lot of these terms and descriptions predicate extensive knowledge of the subject matter. Unless you have that, the names and definitions are largely useless. Learning the names and definitions independently of anything else is also completely useless in my opinion, because it wont do you any good at all.

The flies now sometimes referred to as "Wingless wets", and many variations of the basic hackled designs, have been referred to in various ways, "Hackles", "Spiders", "Flymphs", and some people go to some lengths to "define" them, and can become passionate about it. In my opinion, this is completely pointless from an angling perspective. One should know what a fly is designed to represent, and how to use it. What one actually calls it, or how one categorises it, is basically immaterial. Of course it is convenient when discussing these things to have some "common terms" as general descriptors, but these are only of use if you know what they are, and the people who are discussing them more or less agree on what those descriptors mean.

Adhering to various "strict" definitions or patterns or even dressing sequences, ( as some advocate in regard to traditional North Country Spiders for instance), is completely useless from an angling perspective, and wont catch you a single fish unless you know how to dress them properly for your intended purpose, and when and how to use them. Some materials are in my experience quite important to the success of some flies, but by no means all the old patterns or indeed virtually ANY patterns at all are completely dependent on specific materials, excepting those cases where the material has a specific function that other similar materials don't have.

A lot depends on why these materials were chosen to begin with, and how they affect the fly's appearance or behaviour. In many cases these things were chosen arbitrarily, and in the majority of such cases it doesn't matter whether you use the original material or a substitute. Even in those cases where the material was carefully chosen as part of the design, there will invariably be a substitute which works as well. I do prefer some specific materials for some of my flies, and this is based on personal experience. I have found some materials to work better than others on some of my flies, but I have not tried every single possible material or combination of materials. When I have found something that works extremely well, I stick with it.

There is not a lot of point in trying to "improve" flies that work extremely well. How are you going to improve them? They obviously do the job, you can not ask or expect more than that. No artificial fly is a "magic bullet", and whatever you do you will never find an infallible fly, that is manifestly impossible. Fish wont even always take the naturals, so it would be foolish in the extreme to expect them to always take an artificial, regardless of how "good" it might be. Also, how are you going to decide that some other fly is "better"? There is no sensible way to tell. Your only option is to test the flies under similar circumstances. If you catch ten fish with one fly under such circumstances, and ten fish with another fly under such circumstances, which is better? Of course if you catch no fish with one fly and ten fish with another, then the fly you caught no fish with is probably not as good, but there is no way to be certain, it might be better under other circumstances.

However, if you catch fish consistently with a certain fly under certain circumstances, then that is in my opinion a "good" fly, and unlikely to be bettered. It might not work every time, in fact it most certainly wont, but if it works say 70% of the time under specific circumstances, then it is a really really good fly, and considering all the other factors involved here, unlikely to be bettered in any meaningful way, and even if it were possible to "improve" it, how will you know? You caught five fish on one fly and four on another, so the first fly is better? There is no meaningful way to make direct comparisons of that nature. People still do it all the time, disregarding logic and common sense. The only way to make sensible comparisons at all is over time and under similar circumstances, and apart from being an imperfect method in itself, this also by its very nature takes time. Lots of time and effort, and this just for ONE natural fly!

There are far too many factors involved to make positive pronouncements about lots of things. You are playing the probabilities, the "whims" of fish, variations in presentation, skill, weather, and many other things. The probabilities, when coupled with logic and common sense, indicate that you will be most consistently successful with a good imitation of what the fish are taking, well presented, and this is borne out in practice over time. There is really no room for any other "strategy" if you want to be successful. Having a massive box full of flies is contra-productive, but I will mention that later.

What applies to definitions also applies to individual names, quite apart from some of the more outlandish modern names which people use for their fly patterns, which say absolutely nothing at all about the type or function of the fly, even quite simple names which are widely accepted are more or less useless to an an angler who actually wants to catch fish with them.

Take the "Hare's Ear", it would be hard to find a more "standard" name for a fly, but this "name" says absolutely nothing about the fly. Here are some "Hare's ears";

http://www.google.de/search?q=hare%27s+ ... 22&bih=604

You will barely find two alike. There are thousands upon thousands of variations, many of which differ completely in form, function, purpose, and ingredients. So the name is actually meaningless! Of course you can qualify such names further, as in "Hare's ear nymph", which at least tells you that the fly is presumably designed to represent an actual nymph, but you still have no idea at all which, or how to dress it or use it. In order to be able to use that fly in any sensible fashion you have to be able to relate it to something or other, and the only sensible way to do that is to know what it is designed to represent, and how it should be used. You may well catch a few fish if you don't know anything at all about the fly, fish can be extremely catholic in their tastes, and will often grab anything at all that looks like food to them, and they will also grab other things as well! However, you will definitely catch far fewer than you would if you knew what the fish were taking, used a suitable representation, and fished it correctly.

The only really sensible way to "define" flies, for an angler whose main aim is to catch fish, is to learn what they are designed to represent when dressed in a specific way and how and when to use these specific dressings. In other words, to study the naturals.

Nowadays this is actually the only sensible course of action, the number of artificial fly patterns extant outnumbers the naturals any angler is ever likely to need, or could possibly use, by a very large margin, and the number is increasing all the time.

However, this is not what the vast majority of people actually do.

Of course, although most people who dress flies will say they dress them to catch fish, and may actually firmly believe that, that is not what many of them actually do. They have lots of other reasons for doing it, and they are also firmly bound by their traditions, beliefs, background, inclinations, and experience, or the lack of it, and this materially affects their approach to the matter, how they go about it, and what they produce. This is quite apart from professional dressers, authors, and others, whose primary motivation may well be to sell or promote their flies. This skews things considerably. You can't sell anything to a fish, or bullshit it either! The same does not apply to anglers! :)

If you want to chat along with people on various boards, at the local club, etc, in an apparently "knowledgeable" manner, then you must perforce learn some of the jargon and background they use, but you should be aware that knowing stuff like this wont do you any good at all as far as catching fish is concerned. Indeed, in my experience there are a large number who can "talk the talk", but only a few can actually "walk the walk". Also, being a very good fly-dresser, or caster, or angling historian, or author, or tackle manufacturer, may have very little to do with actual angling skill, although it may play a part of course.

Before you waste a great deal of time and effort on learning a lot of useless jargon, meaningless fly names, "definitions", and a whole lot of other angling related stuff, by rote, or filling your fly box with loads of "names", you would be better advised to learn something about the insects on your local river or lake, where you are actually going to fish, what they look like, how they behave, when they are present, when the fish take them, and so on. With this knowledge you can decide for yourself what flies you need and how to use them. On a perfectly simple basis, if you look at the naturals, and can see no resemblance at all in any artificials that are recommended, and no good reason to use them, then DONT! Use something YOU think might work. If it looks good to you, it will probably look good to the fish as well. If you have no idea what it is, there is a good chance it wont work very well. You don't need to know anything at all about artificials in order to do this. Just ask yourself, "does it look right?". Of course you can take advice when given it, and capitalise on the experience and knowledge of others, but think about it, and don't just accept it blindly.

Fly-fishing and related matters are fraught with myths, traditions, misconceptions, confusion, jargon, precepts, wildly differing opinions, beliefs so strong they are almost religious in nature quite regardless of facts or logic, and the whole complex is more or less delicately overlain with vast amounts of bullshit. This is heavily compounded nowadays by commercial interest. Fly-fishing is an industry, with all that entails. Some people will tell you anything at all if it means they can sell you something. There are others who will bullshit you all day long, apparently because they think they can, or it makes them feel good, or whatever. Others will try to impress you with their knowledge of various matters, and boast of their skills. You will invariably find that those who actually have these things in good measure do not boast about it, and nor will they try to bullshit you. Many, if asked, will try to explain things, some will avoid all contact. These people have no need to boast or try to impress others and would see no point in it anyway.

People do not become first class anglers in order to impress others, they do it for themselves, and having done so, have no need to boast about it, ( apart from commercial considerations which are now rife). There are also some very complex social phenomena involved nowadays, and this can motivate some odd things as well! The internet has also introduced a lot of oddballs to the mix, who have found a place to make themselves heard without the risk of getting punched on the nose, and they are often extremely strident and abusive, to the extent of actually drowning others out, or causing them to retire, these can be safely ignored! Indeed, that is undoubtedly the best policy.

However all this may be, one major problem facing most beginners is just to dig through the bullshit, then they can actually start on the misconceptions, jargon, etc etc. If you approach things properly from the start, then you can actually avoid most of it, and start catching fish quickly and consistently. If you don't approach it properly, you will waste an unconscionable amount of time wading through bullshit, wasting money on what is basically useless to you, learning bad habits, and general silliness instead, indeed, once you are deep enough in it, you may never get out of it! This assumes of course that your main motivation is actually fishing and catching fish! If you are doing it for some other reason, then I assume you will need a different approach! This also depends on where you are going to fish and what you are going to fish for. Not much use learning about ephemerid nymphs if you are going to fish for Tarpon!

If you are going to be "stockie-bashing" then that has its own rules and jargon, and also its different approaches. It is rather a bastardised form of fly-fishing for the most part, but many do it, and they doubtless enjoy it. Not much I can say about it really. I don't fish for stocked fish, for a variety of reasons, which would take far too long to explain here, nor do I fish in competitions, so I will not make any further comment on it.

Whatever you do, the right approach is the key to the whole affair, just as it is the key to catching the fish you wish to catch.

As to "filling your box up" with flies, there is no more pointless or self-defeating exercise for a beginner, ( or for most others either!). Six good flies that are well chosen, well dressed and which you know how and when to use, will consistently beat any other box full of flies in existence. Boxes full of flies don't catch fish! Well chosen, well dressed, and well presented flies do.

This applies to stocked rainbows as well, although if the fish have been chucked in the lake half an hour ago, and have been eating pellets in a stew pond their whole lives before that, all bets are off! There is no sensible or logical way to decide on a suitable artificial fly for such fish. They wont even recognise a natural as food until they have at least some time to acclimatise! People who fish "snail" imitations of clipped deerhair whose resemblance to floating pellets verges on "perfect", are merely deluding themselves that they are "fly-fishing". Although it might be argued that they are indeed "matching the hatch". In any case, the skills required to catch such fish consistently are different, and there are a lot of "ifs and buts" involved, but the basic approach is still similar in many respects. "Chucking the fly-box at them" is not a good idea in any case. If you have absolutely no idea what to use or why, then you need more information, not more flies.

You should always have a good reason for mounting a fly. Just trying flies at random will not be consistently successful. Not even on densely stocked lakes full of fish! If you don't have a reason, then think about it and observe until you come up with one! It might not work, but it is far more likely to work than any random choice, and if it does work, ( which it will quite often), then you have the satisfaction of having "worked it out". Of course, the better the reasons you can find the better your choice is likely to be, that's why you need the information. The name of the fly you use is irrelevant, you just need to know when to use it, and preferably why.

Of course you should try to garner as much information as you can about various things, but you should not blindly accept what anyone says or writes, and you should consciously avoid getting into bad habits, or making illogical choices, or even worse, random choices, the only way to achieve this is to think about it! Does it make sense to you? If it doesn't, then it most likely is not sensible or useful. If you don't understand something and nobody can give you a reasonable explanation, then it is not unlikely that somebody is bullshitting! Anything you blindly accept WILL cause you problems down the road. Some things are so incredibly silly that it beggars belief, but people still believe them and try to emulate them. You can waste months or years on some things, simply because you accepted them, instead of thinking about them. The more you learn the better you are able to evaluate things, and the more precisely you know what to learn, and how to build on what you know.

Fly-fishing and fly-dressing are about collecting the right information, observing, and THINKING about it! Not at all about learning a lot of stuff by rote, or because somebody says so, or the latest magazine says a fly is "infallible", or some material is a "must have". I will guarantee you that it is not! People have been dressing flies and catching fish on them for centuries, and the vast majority did so without all this. Some of them were absolute masters, just as a few still are today. Some of these have special talents of course, but even these only become masters because they think about it and practice a lot. That is the only way you will become good at it.

Knowing all the names of all the flies ever invented, how they are "defined" by various people, or indeed having them all in your box, will not catch you a single fish! Indeed, it will actually prevent you from catching many because you will never learn what to do with them all. Knowing a few basics about natural flies, what they look like and how they behave, will catch you a lot of fish in time.

Finally, regardless of how you go about it, you will not learn any of these things in five minutes, nor will you acquire the necessary skill to implement what you learn very quickly either. There are no short cuts. It takes time and application, although some things go a lot faster if you have a talent for them. Nevertheless, if you avoid a lot of nonsense, you will save a lot of otherwise wasted time and effort. People spend lifetimes on these things, and still never learn as much as they would like to, or become as good as they might wish to. Really, I think that in some cases it is more a vocation than a "hobby" or a "pastime". Also, to a great extent, you get out what you put in to it.

If you can only go fishing a half a dozen times a year, and you don't have time to sit and study things, dress flies etc, then you are not going to get as good at it as somebody who spends all his time doing it. Also of course, the less time you have to spend on these things, the less time you have to waste on silliness if you want to get even moderate results. You must of course decide what is silly and what is not. But this is not as hard as it might seem as long as you think about things.

WHY you do these things is also of major importance to your eventual results. Personally, I have always geared my efforts towards actually catching fish, in the manner I wish to do it, but there are lots of people who spend far more time on dressing nice flies or building rods and all the other enjoyable ancillary stuff, than they do actually fishing, simply because they enjoy doing that, or it is easier for them to do that than actually going fishing, or many other reasons. Your "target" defines to a considerable extent what you have to do and how you have to go about it if you want to be successful.

My main "target" was always actually catching fish, invariably in a specific manner depending on how I felt at the time, or on what I wished to learn etc. That incidentally is not at all the same thing as simply catching as many fish as possible , at all costs, with any method. I can do that too, but it's not something I would normally do, it actually gets boring pretty quickly. How you catch your fish is just as important as catching them at all, at least it is to me. Apart from those provisos however, and within those parameters, my main aim is to catch fish. All the other stuff is enjoyable and interesting, often intensely so, but I have never lost sight of my main aim, and I have never allowed ancillaries to blind me to it, regardless of how enjoyable, interesting, and absorbing I found them, they were always still only means to an "end", although of course there is no "end" as such, just a constant progression which gives a lot of pleasure, which also increases as one progresses.

Of course one can enjoy these things without becoming "good" or "expert" at anything at all. A nice day on the river is a pleasurable experience in itself. So are a few pleasant hours at the dressing bench, or reading angling books, or perusing an angling forum, or whatever takes your fancy. Best not to lose sight of that either! If you become frustrated because things are "not going right", then you are doing something wrong! The main idea is to enjoy yourself catching fish ( or at least fishing for them! :) ), or fly-dressing, or whatever, it is not a competition, or a race, and there is nobody forcing you. It should not matter to you at all how somebody else goes about it, except insofar as you might learn something from them and thus increase your own enjoyment.

Consider also that all the major "advances" in fly-fishing and fly-dressing were made by people who thought about how to improve their own fishing. They did not slavishly copy others, abide by various definitions, or limit themselves to conventional wisdom or tradition. They THOUGHT about what they were doing and why. There is nothing to stop you doing the same. You might not go down in history, but you will certainly enjoy yourself more, and catch a lot more fish!

Regards and tight lines!

Mike Connor

Re: Considerations....on the fly.

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 10:47 am
by Roadkill
Mike,

It is always a pleasure to read your thoughtful posts! I always tell beginners the most important thing is to observe while fishing. You don't have to know the names of the bugs or the flies. But look around, what does it look like the fish are eating? What size is it, what color, and how was it acting when eaten by the fish? Imitate it the best you can with what you have. To me it is a never ending education starting with that first fish on the flyline. The wrong fly fished the right way works better than the right fly fished the wrong way!

Re: Considerations....on the fly.

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 11:23 am
by hankaye
Mike Connor, Howdy;

Almost feel as if I need 3 stomachs (like a bovine), to digest all of this information.

A lot to ponder, all makes compleate sense to me...

Thanks for the thoughts and opinions.

hank

Re: Considerations....on the fly.

Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:10 pm
by Mike Connor
On further consideration, "Wingless wets" actually covers a multitude of sins, not perhaps quite as elegant a term as "Blackbird's Fancy", or even "No Hackle Garden Grub", but if it was good enough for Stewart, then it's good enough for me!

Image


( Although I don't think he actually did any legering for Burbot I´m sure he would have if there had been any in his vicinity! )

It's all in the approach....................! :)

TL
MC

Re: Considerations....on the fly.

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 5:21 am
by Otter
First class post and good advice Mike, thanks for sharing it.

Re: Considerations....on the fly.

Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 10:53 pm
by Mike Connor
Otter wrote:First class post and good advice Mike, thanks for sharing it.
My pleasure. Some questions are constantly repeated, others less so, but questions from beginners can also teach one an awful lot, as can attempting to answer them! :)

I have been exchanging mails with one such beginner recently, and he has in fact asked quite a few questions which others have not. Very interesting actually. This exchange may also be of interest;

Normally I will not comment on what other people do or write in regard to angling or flies etc, as it is only likely to cause problems, and not likely to be of any use, but as long as the discussion is confined to the actual subject matter I don't see any problems with it. That is why I have offered some comments on your questions about various people below. NONE of this is to be construed as criticism of the people concerned, these are merely my views on the subject matter. I just picked four from those you mentioned. I don't know all the people you mentioned, and am unable to comment on what they do or how they do it.

Also, I am actually a great adherent of the old Yorkshire adage, "If tha canna say summat good, say nowt" although I have occasionally had trouble sticking to it! :)

<Snipped>

> So what do you think? Is that a good idea?

Nadica & Igor Stancev

http://www.fishingflies.com.mk/

Well,there are some really excellent looking flies there, apparently well dressed, and I have no doubt at all that when used properly the majority of them would catch plenty of fish. Indeed, looking through the flies there they definitely look like better quality than most, and the majority are obviously original representations of real insects. However, I prefer to use my own flies in any case and have never been tempted to buy many, although years ago I did buy quite a few dressings of some flies mainly as a research project. I wanted to see the differences in some dressers interpretations. That also basically cured me of even wanting to try manufactured flies. Most of which are indeed very poor in a lot of respects. ( That is not a comment or reflection on the flies at that website. I know nothing about them and have never handled any, the people concerned have an excellent reputation, and I do not wish to impute that in any way). I am not an advocate of "super-realistic" flies, as in my experience most of them are not good fish catchers, although some might be. They are also invariably far more difficult to dress than "impressionistic" flies, and often far less robust. Also, because a fly wins some competition or other, that does not necessarily make it a good fishing fly. How humans "rate" flies is invariably completely irrelevant to their efficacy as fish catchers, although some people do "have an eye" for potentially good fish catchers.

Oliver Edwards

The Edwards patterns are also very good, although many are not that easy to dress for an occasional dresser. Some also tend towards the "super-realistic" class of flies, but those I have tried worked well. As far as I am aware he is not a "commercial" dresser in the sense that he sells flies, but he certainly sells plenty of other stuff! :) They are however invariably excellent imitations of various things, and they work. You still need to know when and how to use them of course! :) He obviously puts a great deal of thought into his patterns, and has much knowledge and experience of the insects concerned.

Here is a general review of one of his productions;

http://globalflyfisher.com/reviews/book ... .php?id=95

A simple search on Google will turn up a lot of his videos, fly-patterns etc. Well worth watching as much as you can, you can learn a lot from him.

Davy McPhail

http://www.fishingflies.com.mk/

is an excellent technical fly-dresser, and his flies are well dressed. BUT and it is a big BUT! He basically dresses patterns. He does not make any attempts to copy insects as such. The flies he dresses are obviously first class, although he uses some fairly unusual techniques and methods for some. I don't know whether he sells flies, although I suppose he does. If you want or need some of the patterns he dresses then I would say that these are very good indeed. Sorry, I don't know where you might buy them. Before any of these flies will be any use to you, you still need the knowledge of when and how to use them. Just buying a whole selection more or less at random, or because they "look good", would be pointless.

Hans Weilenmann

http://www.danica.com/FLYTIER/

Hans is a technical and knowledgeable fly-dresser par-excellence. He is well known for a lot of things, not least his "signature fly", the "CDC and Elk". ( You can find it on his page above ). One case where a modification of a fly has actually "improved" it out of all recognition to the original. ( This is very rare!). Hans doesn't sell anything at all as far as I know, but he has certainly been instrumental in popularising lots of things, and also giving extremely generously of his time, knowledge, and experience, on the internet and elswhere. Over the years Hans and I have been involved in lots of discussions. With regard to technical matters we have very rarely disagreed on anything at all. Indeed, I can't think of a single instance. Like myself, Hans is deeply interested and involved in these things, and has been for a long time, and as a result he is extremely knowledgeable about a whole range of angling matters. With regard to his flies they are invariably technical masterpieces. His approach to this is however more or less exactly "opposite" to mine. He often "showcases" the use of various materials, and he "invents" flies ( and the names for them!) faster than I can count them! :) He obviously enjoys doing it. As to the "purpose" of doing such, You would have to ask him! He obviously must have massive boxes filled with all sorts of stuff, precisely that which I often argue against! It obviously works for him. This is not to say it will work for you! In fact, I think it wont work very well for most people, certainly not beginners, but as far as I am aware he has never said it would!

As I already told you, I don't sell anything at all, over the years I have posted lots of stuff, you can still find quite a bit of it spread around the internet, but I never bothered even keeping track of most of it, so I can't tell you where you might find it. Sending you all my "stuff" per mail is quite impossible. Merely from the volume alone. Although I don't mind answering questions per e-mail, there is of course a limit to how many I can answer and at what length. I don't hand out other people's e-mail addresses. If you can't find them by the usual means, then they probably don't want them known. Sorry, that's how it is.

So, I only commented on a couple of those you mentioned, and there are in any case hundreds more who might be mentioned in this regard. The main point here is that these people have their own approaches and methods of doing things. You basically need to develop your own. You can learn a very great deal from them of course, but you still need background knowledge of fish and prey in your waters in order to become any good at fishing. Knowing a lot about artificial flies is not in itself very useful, indeed it is only useful at all from an angling perspective if you can apply that knowledge to imitating naturals.

In general, no matter how well dressed or impressive looking these flies may be, in my opinion you are still far better off using your own. Even your first "fumbling" efforts will catch fish if you take the right approach to it. Furthermore, if you can't catch fish using your own flies, using flies from somebody else is not likely to help much if at all. I have and do use some patterns invented by others, but only a few. I also use some fairly "original" traditional patterns, some modified some not, and a lot of my own stuff. What does vary a great deal is how I dress them.Going into that here would take too long.The further you progress into things like this the more complex it becomes, even though the basic approach is actually quite simple.

In addition to this, and this is a very common problem with professional dressers, they always feel obliged to offer a "range" of flies in various types. This is invariably nothing more than the same fly dressed in different colours or using different materials. I can't see the point in this from an angling viewpoint, although it obviously makes sense from a commercial viewpoint if they can sell them. Many amateurs also make the same mistake, dressing the same things with different coloured bodies, materials etc purely so that they have an "assortment". This is in most cases a complete waste of time. Of course you can fill a box like that, but it is only of any use if your intention is indeed to fill a box! It has nothing at all to do with practical angling.

You can of course, as you say, use these flies as "master patterns" and attempt to copy them, but then you are making the same grave mistake that many others have made over the years, and attempting to copy a pattern, you would be better served trying to copy the natural insect on your water. One of the reasons for the massive increase in fly-patterns, is this creation of "ranges" by professional dressers, and also the copies and inventions of "patterns" as opposed to people trying to copy insects. Dressing identical flies in a "range" of colours or even sizes is contraproductive from an angling viewpoint, although you might enjoy doing it, or enjoy having a really big colourful box of stuff to show people and showecase your skills, if you are a beginner you will basically never know when to use what, especially as there is then no logical reason to choose one colour or one size over another. Only on rare occasions will you be able to determine the actual colour of many sub-surface insects, and in the majority of cases you are better advised to rely on your general knowledge of the insects concerned and the "usual" colours on your water. "Filling your box" with flies in loads of different colours and sizes is just pointless, just makes choosing the "right" one a lot harder.

On sizes, the only sensible reason for having a range of sizes is when a certain artificial fly can be used to represent a range of naturals, like olives for instance. Having 6 different sizes of a freshwater shrimp is completely pointless as they are all more or less the same size in a particular water. Even assuming that was not the case, how are you going to decide what size to use? Catch a load of shrimps and see what size they are before you choose a fly? Certainly it is advantageous to study the naturals if you can, but you need to do this beforehand with reagrd to fly-dressing and choosing flies. Trying to do it while actually fishing wont work very well. Even those who advise things like "kick-sampling" and such invariably have the background knowledge required for the water, and a selection of appropriate flies. The sampling merely confirms their present "suspicions" as it were, and even then only if they interpret what they find correctly.

In the case of shrimps it is invariably better to use a somewhat larger version than the naturals, in some cases patterns with a pink tinge can be very effective as well, but the opposite also applies in other cases. For some upwinged flies, using a smaller size is more likely to be successful. There are no hard and fast "rules" for these things. Although some things of this nature are known to varying numbers of anglers. Some more some less. Experience teaches you, either your own, or that of others, and the more knowledge and experience you have the better you become at various things. Quite apart from improved mechanical and similar skills like casting. In the majority of cases I carry one size of a specific insect copy. There are exceptions to this, like the "Hare's Ear" and a few others which can represent a lot of things, but you still need to choose the size that suits the fly you are trying to imitate. If you have no idea what you are trying to imitate, then you have no sensible way to choose at all! The same applies to colours and "shades". I carry light and dark patterns of some flies, because sometimes a dark pattern is better than a light one, but even in this case I often have trouble deciding which to use. The final option when choosing flies is of course to try them out. If you have to try two flies, ( a light one and a dark one for instance), before you decide which one is best, that's not too bad, if you have to try ten before you decide which is best then you are in trouble!

If you have no information, and no foreknowledge, then presenting yourself with a huge range of choice is just silly. You might choose the "right" thing, or at least something that works, by pure chance, but you have increased the odds against doing so considerably. Also, you NEED some knowledge of "what is going on" in order to make any sensible choice at all! Even when nothing is going on. You need the background on your water, the common insects on which the fish feed at certain times and places. Without this you will merely continue to flounder with random choices which sometimes may work, but you will never be consistently successful. Reducing choise actually increases your chance of success, and it is of course a lot easier to boot! But you have to do it sensibly, the choices you have must be tailored to suit whatever you want to do.

If you are indeed obliged to buy your flies, for whatever reason, although I think dressing one's own flies is of extreme importance to a fly-angler and if you can't do so then you are at a disadvantage to begin with, then you should by all means buy the best you can find, but you still need the background knowledge in order to be able to do so sensibly. Otherwise you will just end up with a random collection of possibly excellent flies which you don't know how or when to use!

Knowing how or when to use a particular fly is of inestimable importance. You might even have the "perfect" fly for a situation in your box, but if you don't choose that fly in that situation, then it is merely a waste of space.

With regard to dressing flies by the waterside. Yes, you can do it if you want to. It is however far easier and more comnfortable to do it at home with good lighting, a comfortable chair, and a bench or table.

This is also a great deal more difficult in other respects than people generally imagine. You need a fair selection of materials, which are a major nuisance to carry and use, and you still need the background knowledge which will enable you to choose and copy the right insect. You are far better served with a selection of flies you have made previously, based on your research of the water, and which you know are likely to succeed at certain times. Some of this information is now easily and quickly available on the internet. "Hatch charts" can be an extremely useful source of information, but are still no substitute for looking at natural insects.

With regard to "kick-sampling", yes, it can be a most useful tool in your armoury, but you have to realise that just because some insects are present, even in numbers, that does not mean the fish are feeding on them! The only absolutely certain way to ascertain what fish are taking is to watch them doing it, or by spooning a fish you have taken. Everything else is a matter of surmise and guesswork. The better your background knowledge the more likely you are to surmise correctly. The better your observation also. A small pair of close focus binoculars can be absolutely invaluable in this regard, ( preferably with a polarising filter), as are polarised spectacles.

Which rod you use is largely irrelevant as far as actually fishing goes! That depends entirely on how you want to fish. Very expensive rods of a certain type wont catch any more fish than the cheap ones of the same type. Rods don't catch fish, neither does any of the other gear, anglers catch fish because they use the right fly at the right time in the "right" way. ( Meaning whatever works! :) ) I can't give you any specific recommendations on rods, there are too many, and I still don't know how you intend to fish or where.

With regard to materials and tools, there is so much information on the internet now, quite apart from books and magazines, that people get "buried" in it. My advice here would be to select a few flies you want to dress, six at most! Based on research of what you need on your water. And buy the materials required. You don't actually need any tools at all apart from a small pair of scissors. A large collection of tools and materials wont catch you any more fish. Although you might enjoy them a lot anyway! :) People dressed flies for centuries using simple readily available materials, without any tools or paraphernalia, and caught untold numbers of fish on them. You can do that too, you just have to want to. If you decide you do want to buy tools, then tell me what you want to do and I will do my best to advise you on which. This is also to a large extent not a matter of necessity at all, but of how much you are prepared to spend. Fly-dressing can become an absorbing "hobby" in its own right, completely indepedent of angling itself, and you can pay a vast amount of money for stuff if you are so inclined.

There is little doubt that the vast majority of people on forums etc will try their best to give you information and help you, very few will actually try to mislead you, that is not the problem at all. The problem is simply the amount of information, and the fact that you are unable to evaluate it in any sensible manner. Just like a great big box of colourful flies! :) How do you know which one to choose and why? You HAVE to make some decisions about what you want to do before you can use any of the information at all.

There are also very many levels of skill and knowledge on forums, and very many viewpoints. Some may be hard to understand, or not suit you, etc. That's how it is. It can be worthwhile to subscribe to a couple at least, because you can learn a lot. I don't bother much myself any more, for various reasons, but explaining that would also take too long and not be much use to you anyway. You CAN learn a great deal, but you can't learn everything at once, that is quite impossible. In order to learn some things and understand them, you need at least some basic knowledge to begin with, otherwise various "advanced" things simply wont make much sense. A case of "learning to walk before you can run". Various advertised "short cuts" like books, DVD's etc. Purporting to teach you how to fish quickly and successfully, are often more or less useless to beginners because they simply dont understand or can't relate to what is being discussed or shown. Similarly, before you can dress some flies you need to know the basic techniques. The hardest thing to learn for a beginner initially s the actual manipulation of small things, the only way to learn this is by practice.

People will give you all sorts of reasons and explanations for things, some of these will be sensible and logical in some context or other, but you have to decide which, and how they relate to you and your approach. "Throwing money at it" might work for some things, but it doesn't work well for fishing or for fly-dressing, but even that depends on your inclinations and approach. You can certainly spend or waste a lot quite easily! :)

Finally, you have to remember that these are merely my views on how I approach the matter. My approach is dictated to a large extent by the way I wish to go about it. I get a great deal of pleasure out of catching fish using particular methods, flies, and approaches. These are not the only approaches. You have to find one or more that suits you and gives you the results and pleasure you are seeking. These are only pointers on how you might possibly go about doing so, not absolute rules.

As you doubtless noticed in view of your other comments, I posted the reply to your questions on a forum. This is because this may be of help to others. There is no clue to your identity, and nobody but myself knows who you are. I will take the liberty of posting this as well. Asking the right questions is actually half the battle on some things, and often people simply don't know what questions to ask. Also, I can usually have a good stab at answering questions as far as I know the subject matter, but writing whole "Guidelines" for things is another matter entirely, and far more difficult. I simply don't have anything like that I could send you. I can understand your reluctance to subscribe to forums, probably better than you realise! But it is a good way to get a lot of information, and you can usually ask a lot of people direct questions if there is something you don't understand or want to know. If you have specific questions as you progress, then feel free to e-mail me, but I can't normally reply at such length to such general questions, I simply don't have the time!

Regards and tight lines!

Mike

Re: Considerations....on the fly.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:20 am
by Mike Connor
Sorry! The URL for Davy McPhail is ;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cnlHNUh3Ro

Some other info;

http://www.feathersmc.com/friends/show/83

TL
MC

Re: Considerations....on the fly.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:17 am
by hankaye
Mike Connor, Howdy;

Excellent post you put up.
Trouble is with the;

http://www.feathersmc.com/friends/show/83

link. Clicked on it and had Internet Explorer shut down ... something very wrong there.

Just a heads-up. NO other problems with links or dealing with your thoughts and opinions.

Thanks for your time ...

hank

Re: Considerations....on the fly.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:34 am
by Otter
The volume of info available to any would be fly fisher to-day is simply overwhelming.

When you fish rivers the dynamics change with such regularity that it makes it difficult for a beginner to get a grasp on anything. Even though I had fished for twenty years and a few years fishing a small stillwater before I faced imitative fly fishing on a river I was more or less completely lost for three seasons. Sure I caught some trout as I had some basic skills but I had no understanding of trout behaviour and though I could recognise some of the fly life I had no idea of how it all fitted to-gether and even seven or eight years on, much of it remains a mystery to me, which is a good thing :)

If someone early on had taken me by the hand and had given me a basic course for example on the lifecyle of epherimids in general, how the the trout generally feed on the nymphs, the emergers , the duns and the spinners then life would have been a hell of a lot easier and there would be a lot more money in my pocket :) Anglers and angling "experts" have made trout fly fishing an overly complicated business, busting at the seams with half truths, adages, misconceptions and inaccuracies - or to be blunt, too much bullshit.

For three seasons solid, I flung dry dun patterns at trout, jumping from one proven pattern to another, one expert to another and considered myself an incompetent imbecile. Of course I was that, my education had been based on various bad books and magazine article bull that led me to believe that one either fished nymphs or dries. Of course my dries rarely worked, that natural duns sailed over the trout un-molested as did my dries. I am sure that I was not alone in wasting my time in this regard and in other matters as well.

A few years on I look at Mikes advice and think to myself .... if only.....

Re: Considerations....on the fly.

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:34 pm
by Mike Connor
hankaye wrote:Mike Connor, Howdy;

Excellent post you put up.
Trouble is with the;

http://www.feathersmc.com/friends/show/83

link. Clicked on it and had Internet Explorer shut down ... something very wrong there.

Just a heads-up. NO other problems with links or dealing with your thoughts and opinions.

Thanks for your time ...

hank
Sorry about that, no idea what is happening there, works fine for me on Firefox, and I ran some checks on it with other stuff, no problems.

Regards and tight lines!

Mike